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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

self entitled middle class??

284 replies

sweetsoulsister · 09/02/2014 22:31

As an 'out of towner' can people explain why the middle class in this fine city of London feel they are so god damned righteous?

I'm standing in a queue with my children at the local swimming pool, and judging by the car park, it's busy. We go in and join a long queue. A couple of the families in front of me take their turn at the counter, turn around in disgust, and pace back and forth, argue with each other and work themselves up into a frenzy. Assuming they are going swimming I ask what has happened with the pool. One of the ladies says, 'The pool is at capacity and if we want to go in we will have to wait until someone leaves,' her voice rises another octave and she continues, 'This is completely unacceptable!!'

Really? Unacceptable? If you were the first family in the pool and it got too crowded because they let everyone in would you just suck it up because it's unacceptable to let everyone in?

This is not the first time I've encountered this outrage and it always seems to be what I've deemed the 'self entitled middle class...'

Explanations please???

OP posts:
HanSolo · 10/02/2014 00:46
Smile

I wonder if it has become melded with self-importance, and become self-entitled then...

Original poster
sweetsoulsister · 10/02/2014 00:46

I'm from Canada where our treatment of our first nations is appalling but if you are white you can make something of yourself if you are willing and able. Not that I think it was right but it was a whole new ball game when I moved to the UK.

OP posts:
HanSolo · 10/02/2014 00:47

s'ok- everyone on MN seems to call me Hans Confused It's a bit odd really...

Original poster
sweetsoulsister · 10/02/2014 00:48

And for what it's worth I majored in Native studies for my degree because I search for the truth in everything and don't agree with how Canada treats the Native population...and perhaps I'm am questioning how the class system works/doesn't work in England...

OP posts:
HanSolo · 10/02/2014 00:49

Ah, Canada, such a young country! Wink

But you do have an established middle class, don't you (by which I mean highly educated, professional and land-owning families that have been there for 10 generations or more)?

HanSolo · 10/02/2014 00:51

Ah- sweet... the problem is that everyone in England is an interloper, not a native!
The norse, the french, the germans before you even get to 20th Century immigrants...

perplexedpirate · 10/02/2014 00:53

I am not an expert on the British class system and even if I were it would be ridiculous to expect me to to give a reasonable explanation in this format. Try a library. Many books on this subject available completely free. Amazing, eh?

Your comment about most books on class being written by Julian Fellowes would be laughable if it weren't so staggeringly ignorant.

perplexedpirate · 10/02/2014 00:54

Sweet, surely if that was your degree, you know of more reliable research methods than this?!

Original poster
sweetsoulsister · 10/02/2014 00:58

I think the difference is there is this acceptance of people who are willing to work or learn, where in the UK I am met with an attitude of 'You don't know so you don't deserve to know' which to me, comes from the middle class. My husband comes from a mixed family - his mum is from out of the country but his dad is from upper class stock so there is a real confidence issue in his family. (won't go into much detail without outing myself), I am first and third generation Canadian with a real mixed background but a real initiative to grasp life and take what it gives me. Hope that gives you all a bit of an understanding about where I come from and what I see living here.

OP posts:
Caitlin17 · 10/02/2014 01:01

OP, your background is interesting but making the sort of sweeping generalisations you did in your opening post is hardly conducive to "questioning how the class system works."

I'm afraid I cannot help you in relation to analysing the situation you encountered. I suppose I'm middle class to upper middle class by birth, education, profession and cultural interests. I drive a Fiat 500 and would consider any one driving a landrover in town "flash" .In the very brief period of my adult life when I went to swimming pools it was a private one at my son's private school. If I had to make a guess the behaviour you describe is simply "rude" not middle class.

volestair · 10/02/2014 01:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
sweetsoulsister · 10/02/2014 01:05

caitlin - this was but one example in 100s that I could list here.

Would anyone here find it hard to classify people as L/M/U class?

OP posts:
Original poster
sweetsoulsister · 10/02/2014 01:09

Yikes - you might be right voelstair, will look at my hostileness, I was feeling quite self-rightous when I first posted and that's always a bad sign...

OP posts:
Caitlin17 · 10/02/2014 01:10

OP, I literally have no idea what you are talking about when you say "I am met with an attitude of 'You don't know so you don't deserve to know' which to me, comes from the middle class"

I do however find your statement there is no acceptance of people who are willing to work or learn nonsense.

Original poster
sweetsoulsister · 10/02/2014 01:19

Caitlin, I'm sorry but I'm about to go to bed now and can't be bothered to go through this thread to highlight all the comments that prove my point. To be honest I don't even want to prove anything, I was just genuinely curious and if people aren't willing to give than I can accept that. There were a very small percentage that seemed to understand what I was saying without getting defensive or agreeing. And to be honest, I wasn't even expecting that. I can't help what I see and experience as an outsider, but I will continue to grow from it. I hope all of you have read and taken part in this conversation will grow from this too. Love all of this... and thank you all for your comments...

Love and light and good night xxx

OP posts:
HanSolo · 10/02/2014 01:22

Perhaps it's just the people you have the misfortune to meet? They don't sound very classy...

It sounds very much like the stereotype of people moving to a new village, and having to live there 30 years before they're not known as 'Joan from London' or 'New Joan'.

HanSolo · 10/02/2014 01:23

Really- the Kate Fox book I linked to upthread explains loads of things such as how to tell which class someone belongs to, and what their shibboleths are. It will probably help a lot!

Bogeyface · 10/02/2014 01:24

Your comment about most books on class being written by Julian Fellowes would be laughable if it weren't so staggeringly ignorant. It was supposed to be laughable, you know, a joke? I believe he wrote Downton Abby? Your implication of intelligence was clearly just that, and sadly not a fact!

OP, I literally have no idea what you are talking about when you say "I am met with an attitude of 'You don't know so you don't deserve to know' which to me, comes from the middle class"

It has been on this thread! Instead of telling her, they have slagged her off. Which says to me "if you are not one of us then we are not going to tell you how to be one of us " or "I think I might be MC but I am not sure and I dont know what being MC means, so I am going go on the defensive"

perplexedpirate · 10/02/2014 01:32

He did indeed write Downton Abbey, but that's a TV program and not a book, though there have been several spin offs; maybe that's whats you're thinking of?
His books are Snobs and Past Imperfect which are based within the upper/middle class and do probably give a reasonable insight into that particular 'set'. They are also quite jolly reads, if you are so inclined.
I'm afraid I don't understand your joke, nor your comment about implied intelligence.
Please explain, if you feel so inclined, but don't trouble yourself if not.

volestair · 10/02/2014 01:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
sweetsoulsister · 10/02/2014 01:38

volestair - irony at its best. goodnight once again. sigh.

OP posts:
volestair · 10/02/2014 01:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BritabroadinAsia · 10/02/2014 01:58

Yes, Han, the Kate Fox book Watching the English would be a great read for the OP - some astute and amusing observations about class there, and how the English regard themselves.

But, yes, I agree with everyone else who has said that the original transgression at the swimming pool was actually just rudeness. Class, in this instance, is irrelevant.

SSS, are you finding it difficult to fit in/befriend people in London? Please don't read that as me meaning to be patronising - I am asking as I am now an expat myself who is massively grateful to have very welcomed by an international community where I now live. I feel bad about the times back in London where I didn't go out of my way to reach out (horrible phrase, couldn't think of an alternative) to the expat women I encountered....the whole cliche about the reserved British exists for a reason.

Have a read of the book - I do think you will recognise some of the behaviours the author describes, and have a laugh at our foibles.

Bogeyface · 10/02/2014 01:59

Perpelexed It isnt what I was thinking of. And please dont patronise me, I have better calls on my time than to explain anything to someone who thinks themself better than me.

I have read Snobs, and Gosford Park (a film) is one of my favourites and clearly illustrates his attitude to those Upstairs and Downstairs. As I say, a joke.

Monty27 · 10/02/2014 02:05

I have thighs, well chicken thighs, in the fridge. Hmm what shall I do with them Confused

Can't really wear leggings any more though Sad