I know IABU. Hate myself at the moment.

[tryingreallytrying]

My dd (14) is driving me up the effing wall. Find myself shouting at her. Don't want to. Just had huge row as she is SO RUDE. Have been trying to ignore it, let it wash over, be polite back the last few days, but just snapped and was horrible back.

Not good at being saintly.

Very upset. Wish I could manage this parenting lark calmly. Have 2 other dcs but they don't drive me up the wall.

Know I was wrong and should be the grown-up no matter how grim she is but so hard.

I didn't get an apology OP. Apparently she was just about toapologise when I selfishly sspoke to her dad to arrange for her to what she said she wanted 15 minutes earlier although I was calling her bluff and I have no intention of leaving her behind

The blummin' holiday isn't even booked yet. And if I do nbook it it would be Monday-Friday so she could still go to the precious party!!

Well I am obviously out of the loop here. I just will not have them be rude to me. I managed to bite my lip with my parents when I was a teen, I don't see why they can't do the same. And I clamped down early on, before they even thought about majorly acting up.
I'm not saying my kids are angels, we certainly have the odd shouty disagreement, but no, I have zero tolerance for rude people. Why the hell would you let someone be horrible to you? I wouldn't put up with it from DH, I certainly won't put up with it from my kids.

MoominMamma - you're not out of the loop and that's what I did too, until v recently. But seemed to be clamping down on dcs ALL THE TIME and still not resolving problem. I do think dd's behaviour is unacceptable BUT also think she has issues that genuinely worry her and I'd rather she was mouthing off at me than self-harming, say. I'm trying to find a calmer way that doesn't turn me into a shouting harridan and leaves dd feeling there is a point in making an effort - even if she is not perfect. Whereas if I clamped down on everything dd hated me but also had the 'might as well be hung for a sheep as lamb' approach, as she felt whatever she did was not enough.

I'd like dd to see herself as 'good' not as 'bad' as I think otherwise there is a danger of creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.

But you're right - I wouldn't take it from anyone else, not for a second.

Hmm, I do actually have one who dabbles in self harm.. She is a completely different personality from the others though, never argumentatitive or confrontational, has always bottled things up since she was a little girl. She is actually never ever rude. We would willingly swap a bit of rudeness for better mental health.
I do think it is different if your daughter has issues such that she is getting into trouble in school Trying. My rationale has been that if mine are capable of being model citizens in school, then they are damn well capable of it at home. Obviously she is all round struggling, you need to find what works for you.

Agree, and until this year, dd was doing v well at school so I wasn't so worried about squishing a bit of rudeness at home. But now she actually needs my support at school as well as home - but is not likely to accept it while we're at loggerheads. I'd like to help her - she'd like to be left alone to make her own mistakes, live her own life - sees me as interfering.

It's hard - I want her to to realise for herself what she needs to do - and being generally polite is part of that - but I don't want to spend every day nagging her/shouting at her to do that. I think it has to come from her. But how I get to that stage I don't know - just my suggesting something now is enough to put her off it. :(

You just have to calm down and speak to her on a normal level and firmly say that it's not acceptable and you won't tolerate it, and leave the room for example. Start shouting matches and you'll just mess up stuff for the future, and create a pattern that will be very hard to break. A few years with hellish teenage behaviour is worth a good relationship for the 50 odd years you're going to be family afterwards.

she'd like to be left alone to make her own mistakes,

I have never agreed with that policy. My husband used to but has seen the error of his ways.

You could try making a 5 year plan with her.So at 19, where would she like to be and what doing? Write it down.
Then show her what it could be like with peoples' help. And what it could be like if she makes her mistakes along the way. But make it reasonable, both outcomes. Perhaps tone down best outcome and dont make worst outcome too bad. Else it gives her chance to pick holes in it all.

Very true, Littleen, and I'll try to focus on that. :)

Honeysweet - I've tried that but she just says she's fine/she doesn't care about her future. I don't know if a) she is basically fine (she's very bright so might well be able to get good results without that much effort, b) she is worried about stuff but doesn't want to admit it or c) she genuinely is incapable of thinking much beyond the present.

Hoping it's a) as don't know how to get through to her if it's b or c.

hmm. 14 is a little young to be thinking about it. It may well be c. which is fair enough for now.

Does she ask for your help with anything at all at the moment?

Only health issues. She's a massive worrier so any health worries she asks me about and I take seriously but calmly. I suppose that's something. (Always me, never dh as he is massively unsympathetic about illness.)

OK so, going to work on being CALM.

Not engaging in any arguments or rudeness.

Update: we have made friends by text. I texted to say I was sorry for shouting. She texted back "and I'm sorry for being a narnit. And stroppy. And wrong". (Narnit is a word from when she was little. Cross between a narna and a nit!)

We've told each other we love each other and I said I'd try and book the holiday so she can still go.

Feel much happier and more relaxed

Sometimes it's easier to communicate in writing than face to face a guess.

Oh good, BOOP :) - I tried writing dd a leeter last night when she wouldn't listen. I wrote her a v nice letter - had no response whatsoever. :( And loads of shouting. So I tore up the letter today when cross. :(

Have sent her to bed early for being foul. Am back to punishment. But my limits really reached today.

Hopefully after a decent night's sleep, we can both be nicer tomorrow.

That's so lovely BitOutOf

She'll have read and remembered what you wrote OP, just keep plugging away, she'll come back to you eventually.

I hope so trying. It's really hard this penetrant teenagers malarkey

Hope so...

Good luck to all those struggling with teen dds...

If only they knew how we actually felt and appreciated it just the teensiest... Oh well.

Trying from parenting a ASD child I know that a lot of explosions and aggressive reactions are the result of anxiety. I try and deal with ds2's bad behaviour as if dealing with anxiety rather than rudeness.

Would that help with dd? Thinking, this anxious person is screaming at me rather than this "rude" person is screaming at me? How do I resolve her anxiety?

Dd does like boundaries ( I made her pick up a pea from the floor which she delibarately threw there on Sunday night and her behaviour did seem to improve after that but she always always wants to know I am on her side.
She hugged me several times this morning after insulting me The calm thing does seem to work. She wants me to be a rock, and she wants to be the wave crashing against it. For now.

We often send dd to her bedroom. Not as a punishment exactly, just, we don't really want to be in the same room as you when you are shouting Her room is lovely, full of nice books and music, so really she is quite relieved to get away from the rest of us. I think she is longing to be given permission to enjoy her own company, think her own thoughts. It is strange how they come and pick fights and then complain you are ruining everything.

I think they are torn between wanting to be family members and being independent free "individual" thinkers, and rows are the result. But in the end, there is some sort of balance which happens because you both thrash it out, what you want from the other. Certainly you both want something "new"...some new status quo.