to think MNers can be better than this

[IceBeing]

OPs may be ignorant, they maybe obtuse, they may be in the wrong and they may be trolls...

but how can dozens upon dozens of swearing riddled instructions to carry out intimate acts be considered a reasonable response?

For some people MN is the first forum they frequent. It is perfectly possible to post something that is innocently ignorant yet massively outrageous to MNers. Then suddenly you are being called all the names under the sun and told to fuck yourself preferably until dead? really?

Believe me it can be a massive shock that people say things on the internet they would never say in real life. It is possible to feel very very frightened and threatened by such an onslaught.

AIBU to think if the last 5 posters have covered the 'fuck off to the far side of fuck' angle then maybe you don't need to stick the boot in too?

The best case scenario is that the person on the other end is indeed a troll....in which case why are you giving them what they want?

[IceBeing]

you they didn't say anything about the troll hunting or abuse did they?

Either it is allowed or it isn't. So which is it?

I have no pity for trolls. I have pity for people who get slated and aren't trolls. Thats why I defend the anti-troll hunting and personal abuse rules.

because sometimes people get it wrong.

I am not sure that supporting these rules makes one automatically against the parents of disabled children.....in fact I believe that to be total nonsense.

[IceBeing]

The idea that you might only have time to write 'fuck off and die' and not to patiently explain why the OP is wrong doesn't mean that you should in fact write that or anything at all.

[SpinDoctorofAethelred]

I think the idea that I cannot justifiably conclude something about your priorities from your response in that thread and your OP here is "total nonsense". Are you actually that troll's spin doctor?

MNers stuck up for the SN community in that thread. It was a good thing. Threads like that, left unchallenged, make targeted forum users feel "threatened".

There's another forum that I and many other people left because hardly anyone else challenged the band of deeply unpleasant misogynist trolls. Day after day there was thread after thread.

I can see a lot of people on MN want the parents of SEN children to leave, as they say inconvenient truths, but they will just have to deal with the reality that it's mumsnet not mumsofchildrenwithoutdisabilitiesnet.

[TheFutureSupremeRulersMum]

SpinDoctor Icebeing isn't saying people shouldn't have challenged the OP of the other thread on their views. She is trying to point out that some of the responses on that thread and others were abusive and broke guidelines and that's frustrating to see.

[catsrus]

This is nothing to do with SN, I understand the issues around SN, I grew up with a very close family member with life-limiting SN and I grew up knowing how the rest of the ignorant world treated people with SN. This is not about that - so stop trying to derail it. This is about troll hunting behaviour on ALL threads where it happens, whether the OP is a Troll or not and no matter what the topic.

It's not a "pity" I didn't read the thread in question - what an odd thing to say . None of us have the responsibility to read all threads. We do have a responsibility which we agreed to for self policing the site by reporting both suspected trolls and troll-hunting. We have all agreed, by signing up to this site to abide by its rules. Its rules prohibit Troll hunting. If MNHQ change that particular rule then I doubt MN will last long, it will implode under the weight of the rival packs hunting their own version of a troll. I would not want to see that because I do think this site is generally an amazing resource for all of us.

[YouTheCat]

MNQH do what they always do, and remind members of the rules and talk guidelines.

[Redirected]

And once, we were encouraged to self-mod

Hence why there are distinctly different approaches to MN 'issues'
depending on whether people view it as 'their' backyard - with a duty to police - or whether it is seen as a playground only appropriately policed by the powers that be.
Sometimes I think MNHQ aren't quite sure which camp they sit in.

[LtEveDallas]

I thought this was about 'pack-mentality' and telling people to fuck themselves until they are dead (which I've never seen, but have no reason to doubt).

Which I agree isn't helpful and leaves a nasty taste in the mouth.

Troll Hunting on the other hand is a lot less hurtful than Trolling, so I don't have an issue with posters that that partake.

Complaining about a site that lots of us like and don't want to change irritates me deeply.

[SpinDoctorofAethelred]

It's a pity you didn't read this thread before posting on it. Not the thankfully deleted disablist thread. I'm not judging you for missing that thread. I'm judging you for not reading this thread beyond the first post.

Clear?

And thank you for the 'I know someone with SN' point. Have some cake. No, starting a thread about a thread means your point is inextricably connected with the subject matter of the original. You can't just pretend that thread wasn't offensive because it's convenient.

TheFuture And I'm sure she'd have found a lot less frustrating if it was a form of discrimination that she cared about. I bet that if it had even been a form she didn't care about, but knew was socially unacceptable on a greater scale, the OP would have been phrased a lot more carefully, without trying to gain sympathy for the poster.

[Redirected]

Complaining about a site that lots of us like and don't want to change irritates me deeply

This.

Which is not to say that robust discussions which result in change are not a good thing. Evolving is healthy.

[Goldenbear]

So robust discussions are allowed but not on this topic??

[AliceinWinterWonderland]

This is nothing to do with SN, I understand the issues around SN, I grew up with a very close family member with life-limiting SN and I grew up knowing how the rest of the ignorant world treated people with SN. This is not about that - so stop trying to derail it. This is about troll hunting behaviour on ALL threads where it happens, whether the OP is a Troll or not and no matter what the topic.

Maybe to you it IS all about trolling. But to some, it's not. Do you know that the other thread is the FIRST TIME in the ages that I have been on MN that I've seen practically a unanimous (albeit one sadly ridiculous other poster) response that stood on the side of the disabled? I actually, for a brief time, thought "god, maybe there is hope after all" regarding posters on here and their often anti-SNs stance or disablist comments.

But no. This time, this ONE TIME that people actually get behind the disabled and say "no you're being disablist" and "YABU", people start kicking off about the poor OP. The poor, inconsiderate, unthinking OP that started it all.

Bollocks to it. I give up. Wouldn't want to be seen standing up for SNs now and upset the poor OP. I stand by the comment that said that the OP picked a very poor choice for a thread to use as an example.

[YouTheCat]

Well said, Alice.

[LtEveDallas]

Robust discussions are ace. They are the backbone of any decent website, they teach loads and invite people to re-examine long held beliefs.

This isn't.

This is boring.

This is the same arguement, over and over and over. Getting more snidey, snipey and passive aggressive every time.

The majority of MNers are happy with MN
The majority of MNers understand and follow the rules and guidlines.
The majority of MNers don't want MN to change.
The majority of MNers understand that MNHQ have a hell of a job 'policing' us all, and appreciate their efforts.
The majority of MNers hide threads/topics/subjects they don't like and concentrate on those they do.
The majority of MNers don't feel the need to 'tell off' other MNers like we were a bunch of naughty schoolchildren.

But still we have yet another one of these threads, that don't solve anything, that get peoples backs up, that upset people, that make us all sound like whinging, moaning arses with nothing better to do with our time.

This isn't a robust discussion, it's embarrassing and irritating.

[YouTheCat]

Also well said LtEve.

[SpinDoctorofAethelred]

Bugger, Alice has made my point far more eloquently than me. Have [brew ] for that great post!

[Redirected]

I didn't offer an opinion on that, either way, Goldenbear
FWIW I believe any subject should be open to debate. Some will be more heated than others!

[Goldenbear]

It doesn't matter that a 'majority' thinks this and a 'majority' thinks that- unsure how you know this categorically anyway? Again, it is a public forum and one person or even the 'majority' do not get to decide what is up for discussion!

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

You all know (probably) that troll-hunting is against the rules, as are personal attacks. We work quite hard behind the scenes to address troll-hunting, because we've seen (over and over) posters get it horribly wrong - and that can have really nasty effects for absolutely genuine people seeking support.

(We've said this before, but more than one MNHQer has been accused of being a troll when posting under other names about RL issues. So this is something we feel fairly strongly about - and we know that even the most regular, long-term MNer can get it hopelessly wrong.)

All that said, we try not to deal with reports in a letter-of-the-law sort of way, but in an overall spirit-of-the-site sort of way. If we get a visit from someone who is absolutely blatantly hairy of hand, it just doesn't seem the best use of our time to fire off emails to every single person who told them to eff orf.

Equally, if we see an MNer troll-hunting left, right and centre, she will probably hear something from us - even if she got some of her troll-hunting calls 'right'.

[TrampledUnderfoot]

MNHQ need to address the troll problem then, because the trolls are causing more damage to the site than the troll hunters.

[TrampledUnderfoot]

And these threads always bring out the grudge holders and the reg bashers.

It was ever thus.

[Hullygully]

yars...

[Misspixietrix]

Trampled so are you saying that anyone who agrees with the OP is a grudge holder then? Personally I couldnt give enough fucks to let somebody on the internet bother me for more than 60seconds enough to fire off a sarcastic reply back to the twat. BUT Some Do. MN has just pointed out twice that genuine users have been accused of troll hunting sometimes. Which is why maybe sometimes some of the usual pack mentality clique should you know? Back the fuck off. HTH.

[Viviennemary]

It would be good if there was some sort of agreement on how these troll type threads are dealt with. I don't think loads of abuse is the answer because the trolls will love it. The genuine person would be horrified.