to expect a graphic designer to be able to read their design to see if it's grammatically correct?

[HollyMiamiFLA]

So someone is designing an email for me.
He's sent me a few proof copies - I've sent them back and he's modified them.

He seems incapable of actually reading it to see if it makes sense. The 3rd one is going back as there's an obvious spelling error on it.

He's a designer in a company I am using for some marketing.

Vivi Victorian-themed circuses? I always fancied one of those...

I know an excellent graphic designer who's also a MNer, PM me for her details.

She'sVGAtGrammarTiggaxx

YABU.

Used to do this for a living. The entire point of a proof is for YOU to check it and to spot any errors not just to look at the pretty graphics.

We actually had a company policy to not change errors that were in text supplied by customers. Why? Because you would not BELIEVE the aggro it caused if you changed grammar, spelling or punctuation without the customer's say so. Partly because we might make an error and partly because some customers got so precious about it and used to get into arguments about corrections insisting they hadn't made a mistake in the first place (when they had). They were too proud to admit their english was below the standard of a 12 year old on occasion. It was particularly true of apostrophes. Bane of my life!!!

The other thing is when you stare at text for hours on end like that, you become blind to mistakes in the text. You either don't read the text or see it so much that you read how the text should read rather than what it actually says.

The company said - give them some ideas and this person will use them, write the email and design it.

You NBU to expect an acceptable level of copy then. But as Wilson says, often you pays your money you takes your choice....

They were too proud to admit their english was below the standard of a 12 year old on occasion

Ah, I see you've met DH's ex-director?

ah ok, if that was the service provided then you are not unreasonable.

but just from the job title 'graphic designer' i would definitely not expect copy editing

Oh how the Graphic Designers I used to work with would howl at this! Tbh they were a moody bunch

I wasn't a Graphic Designer but if I saw what I thought was a mistake or it didn't read right to me then I would email the client to let them know. Then if there's any comeback I had proof that actually they knew about any mistakes and were happy to go to print, etc.

"Using a 'man and a mac' is quite a common way to cut costs but you don't get the all-round expertise you would in a larger agency."

Well that's why you need a woman and a mac, you just need to get the right woman - who has the right colleagues to collaborate on projects with.

I'm 100 per cent convinced that my partners and I offer a vastly superior service to most larger agencies, with no retainer fees or huge overheads. Trouble is clients constantly want to cut costs then wonder why some providers give a sub-standard service.

You need to find retentive perfectionists. MN seems to be a good place to start!

not their job. In a professional situation a coy writer would write the copy, the designer would set it within the design and a proofread would read it. People can ask for some right old bullshit in their designs, if designers spent all their time querying it they'd never get anything done!

copy writer even!

Retentive Perfectionists Creative Ltd

You write the copy, I'll design the logo.

Deal!

USP: will accept payment in gin

He could at least check it over before he sends it back. He may be the designer, but he should be capable of proofing the work to some extent.

Twelve

Why? Paul that's not his job, as far as the GD is concerned the copy that the client has sent is correct

I studied Graphic Design to degree level, one of the projects we worked on was a group project which involved a short written piece about each of us. As I was the one that was always reading I was designated 'copywriter'.
The work I was handed was actually an eye opener. I was a bit taken aback that people who were hoping to work in the industry couldn't spell basic words.

I agree with Paul, there should be some ability to 'proof' the work, even if that is putting the copy into a word document and spell checking it before copy and pasting it into whatever program they are using.

Yes, graphic designers should be able to throw some words through spell check, but that's kinda missing the point. There's a skill to copy writing and even perfectly spelled, grammatically correct copy can still be very bad copy... Even if the email copy here had been spell checked if a GD is putting it together then it's unlikely to be any good.

I'm a proof reader and copy editor and my husband is a graphic designer. If the client supplies the text and just wants a design fitted around it - say, a menu for a restaurant, an ad, wedding invitations - then he inserts their supplied copy into the design and sends them back a copy for them to check and sign off on. If they want wording supplied as well, then any copy produced by his office goes to the proof reader and any corrections made, and then the proof is sent to the client for final check and sign off.

Quite Reg. Copy Editor and Graphic Designer are totally different jobs.

90% of the time clients want the work done cheaply - so provide the copy themselves rather than pay for a professional to write and check it.

As I said before, editing someone else's text is actually a minefield even if its well intentioned.

I primarily design graphics for commercial fashion retail. We don't have copy proofers. I've seen some corkers make it into production. (Not my own I hasten to add - )

"Candy Cain" on Christmas novelty pyjamas, "My Best Freind" on girls' jersey, endless ordinary plurals groaning with incongruous apostrophes, the lot.

I was at a friend's house before Christmas - beautiful house, the best (or, at least, most expensive) of everything. Then out of the corner of my eye I saw a decal on the wall proudly stating "Merry Chistmas". But loads of other people had been and gone and no-one had noticed.

oldnewmummy I've posted before about 'wall art' with too many ellipsis...

The company I used seems to be quite big and with good clients. It markets itself as a company that will "design" your email for you so it grabs the attention of clients and promotes your product. They recommend you give your designer some ideas of what you want to sell and they will use their marketing / design / copywriting skills to create it for you.

I agree that if it was a graphic designer, then spelling is not their role. But the impression is the company will take all the effort out of your hands and use their considerable experience to design an effective email.

I am a good speller and understand grammar so it's easy for me to spot mistakes. I also know a fair bit about marketing and sales so I kind of know what I want to say. But if I was someone using this company who had difficulties with spelling and grammar, then I would expect the company to ensure things were correct. This is the impression that they give.

Anyway, it's been sent back 3 times and I think I'm happy with the final draft.

They also said to liaise with the designer about effective subject lines to get a good open rate. So you'd assume some marketing knowledge as well.

During my degree, we focussed on how being able to actually read and write really comes in handy for designers.

Surely you need to know the context and content to be able to itegrate it into the design? The two are about communication, so we should all know a little bit about what everyone else does.