to think cyclists ought to sit a test before being allowed on the road?

[SantanaLopez]

I live on a route popular with amateur cyclists. Yet again this morning another group of folk were causing absolute havoc on a two lane road. They aren't dressed properly, they don't signal, they don't even look where they're going. One man was weaving along instead of cycling in a straight line!

So while I have a cup of tea and a cake (for medicinal reasons)- aibu to think that they should have to be tested before being allowed on the road? I know drivers are the biggest hazard, but safety works both ways!

How many Belgians do you think cycle regularly compared to the average Brit Volestair?

I just googled this, and the 2011 WHO statistics for average life expectancy in Belgium are 80.4 years combined for males and females.

In Glasgow, where the OP has said she lives, it is 74.8. There are parts of inner city Glasgow where it is 53.9.

53!

I'm not suggesting this is linked to attitudes to cycling. I am suggesting its linked to attitudes to exercise.

Midnite, I came off and damaged my bike avoiding a pedestrian who stepped out without looking. Should pedestrians wear identification too?

If you want to start getting silly about it, then why should car drivers have to be licensed and have a number plate if cyclists don't want to?

If there's something that can be done to make the roads safer for ALL users and for users to take a level of responsibility for their actions, then it should be investigated.

MidniteScribbler If there's something that can be done to make the roads safer for ALL users and for users to take a level of responsibility for their actions, then it should be investigated

I agree. Introducing legislation which makes all vehicle drivers strictly liable in civil and criminal law for any accidents involving non-motorised road users would make the roads safer for everyone. This means that if the non-motorised user was found to be at fault, then the presumption of liability would not apply.

Introducing proper cycle paths, particularly cycle roads running parallel to roads, suitable for cycling on at speed, and encouraging people out of their cars especially for short journeys, would also make roads safer for everyone.

Drivers pass tests. Yet most seem unaware of the rules regarding how ro deal with cyclists.

There are bad cyclists, but fuck me there are horrendous drivers who should technically know better out there.

LessMissAbs - guilt should be prescribed to whoever caused the accident. Despite what you may think, there are plenty of cyclists, just as there are plenty of car drivers and pedestrians who can be at fault. All road users whether car, pedestrian, bike, horse, skateboard or scooter should be adhering to the road rules and be prepared to accept liability for their actions.

And our government spent millions on a fabulous bike road running along the highway along our coastal area. Multi million dollar views, smooth, lanes marked and wide enough for cyclists to ride two abreast in each direction. There's a separate walking track, so no pesky pedestrians in the way, and separated from the road so nice and safe, with designated crossing areas to get on and off the cycle road. It was all done in consultation with cycling groups to give them exactly what they want to get them off the very over congested highway. Yet every Sunday morning there are packs of cyclists riding along the highway taking up both lanes off the highway. Millions were spent on them, yet they don't even use it.

Midnite, you were the one who got silly about it by saying cyclists should have some sort of identification. It's a proportionate response - cars cause orders of magnitude more damage and injuries than bicycles, so have licenses whilst bikes don't.

Are we going to licence people on scooters and skateboards as well?

Midnite are you aware that there are two different branches of law - civil and criminal? And that in civil law, we already have strict liability in a number of areas - including occupier's liability, responsibility of owners for their animals and many areas of statutory liability. Strict liability for car drivers in civil law is already part of German, Dutch and Belgian law, and it is entirely possible within UK law to encompass the concept.

Even in common law, the doctrine res ipsa locquiter may apply to any appropriate civil claim so as to transfer the burden of proof.

In criminal law, again, it is entirely possible to promulgate legislation to the effect that liability is assumed unless the contrary is proven. Again it is a feature of Dutch, Belgian, German and I think Danish and some other legal systems.

However, you, the OP and Volestair are not people I would take advice from. That would be like a kind of physical atrophy. I would take advice from people who are physically high achievers, who can run or cycle fast, who are athletic and fit. I really cannot believe the terrible physical shape the average person over 40 is in in this country. They look quite horrific. We should be doing everything possible to encourage people to do things like ride bikes, not letting people who have never done much in the way of physical activity in their lives restrict those people they have. So that they do not end up with attitudes like yours which are so anti- physical activity. The best way to do that is to encourage children to develop skills and good attitudes towards health and exercise when they are young and their motor skills can be best influenced so as to set them up for a healthy future.

I don't remember seeing anything about stopping cycling, just ensuring that people are safe when they cycle

I don't agree with everything that has been said but anything that keeps my children safer on the road I'm all for

I find it extraordinary that anyone thinks it's OK to let totally untrained people on flimsy vehicles get onto roads with half ton plus metal vehicles moving quickly on them. It's blindingly obvious that there will be casualties, and the more of these untrained people go on the roads the more accidents there will be.

Oh no! The wail goes up from Volestair. You aren't doing what I told you. You don't agree with me.

Again, I repeat. You are not someone I would take advice from. I do not wish to atrophy. If you were a successful athlete, or someone who could transport yourself under the power of your own body at the very least, I might think you worthy of listening to. I have no wish to end up like you though, I really don't think it very advisable.

Lazyjaney on previous threats you have shown a quite pathological hatred of cyclists. Have you actually succeeded in having the pesky pigs banned yet?

I suspect overall, that cycling with all its risks, is still healthier than deterring even more people from cycling.

But then I wake up every day and can visibly see the benefits of cycling and other exercise on my body. I'm also a higher rate taxpayer and DH and I pay 3 sets of road tax between us. I'm not campaigning for a fitness and awareness test for drivers before they get let loose on the roads. I am campaigning for compulsory strict liability in both civil and criminal law.

The UK is becoming the laughing stock of Europe, in that so many people have attitudes designed to cause physical health problems quite early on in life.

I find it extraordinary that anyone thinks it's OK to let people in a half ton upwards of metal out on the roads with only a presumption that they have passed a test (once), studied the highway code recently and that they will obey the requisite traffic laws

^^
Better idea than letting people on the road with no training or licence IMO

Those on 'flimsy vehicles' don't tend to kill other people.

No training? About 80% of cyclists have a drivers licence.

Once again, I must point out that a percentage of 'drivers' have no license or training. I'm sure someone will have the figures but apparently it's a norm amongst certain sections to drive without passing a test.

I understand that a percentage of "cyclists" also have no licence or training.

What's the point you had in mind?

That the damage you can cause by driving without skill or practice is huge, and a real danger to other people. Can't really say the same with a bike.

I always feel quite upset when a cyclist, at night, wearing dark clothes and with no lights, pulls out of a side road at high speed without looking, and bleeds all over my car. They are sometimes wearing hoods which block their side vision.

As a cyclist I am more pissed off that the laws that already exist are not enforced properly. Is it illegal to ride without lights in the dark, it is illegal to skip red lights and pedestrian crossings, it is illegal to thump people's cars and aggressively verbally attack them if you perceive them to be in the wrong. I see these things every day and no one does anything.

At the same time, it is a potential three-point penalty to pull forward into the bike box so I can't get into it, it is illegal to shout that I'm a 'Fing c' as you deliberately swerve close to me because I couldn't pull to the left fast enough (because cars were parked in the cycle lane), it is illegal to force me through a red light by tailgating me so you can skip the light too. Again, things I see all the time and nothing is done.

Let's deal with the enforcement of the laws already in place before we try and add more.

I won't live long enough to see the day when everybody obeys all the existing laws all the time, so, no, I won't wait until then.