Unauthorised Absence for one day.

[mrsjavierbardem]

I have to take 2 dc out for one day, I don't want the palaver of being refused so do most people just phone their kids in sick?
I hate doing it but I don't see what choice we have now, I think to be allowed to take your kids out for one day every few years should be allowed, but it seems mad to walk myself into a big fine.
So are other people just phoning in sick if it's one day?

Fan - I only ask as many people are under the impression that the school issue the fine, they don't.
I would guess what was actually said has got confused in the re-telling.

FanF is lying then is she KellyHopter? re-read what she has says about reducing it to one day for which she would be fined. sorry but this might not be happening where you live but it is happening elsewhere. have a look through a number of other MN threads (sorry haven't the time to do it myself and link you in to it) this is happening. this is real. it is divisive and it is hugely pissing people off. what's more, this is only just the beginning. as more and more parents catch on there will be a ground swell of it. all it serves to do is make parents fall out with school heads and that can never be good. meanwhile the 50% attenders collect their cup for effort and no one tackles this at all.

It may well have done, but it's not the first time the school have refused time off for my daughter with the threats of a fine. I wanted to take her out for a long weekend to take her on holiday, she has behavioural issues and I wanted a quiet time, so term time would be perfect, and they refused, which I thought fair enough. But to refuse three days for a funeral I thought was ridiculous, two days would be for travelling, the third for the funeral.

I took DD out for the day, it was 'unauthorised' but no comeback on it at all.

Everyone told me to lie and I know most other parents do, but I just couldn't...

Mummymeister - I didn't say fanf was lying! But she says this wasn't a conversation she was part of and perhaps that's relevant?

The head does not get to decide who gets fined or when, that's just not how it works.

I just wondered if the conversation was more like 'we'll authorise two days, any more will be unauthorised and as standard will be referred to EWO who have the power to issue a fine'. Could easily be retold in the way fan described.

I don't need to search threads on here, I deal with this issue every day, it's my job.

if its your job KellyH then you will know that it is the H/T alone who decides whether to authorise the absence or not. by coding the absence as unauthorised this then is passed to the EWO. so whilst it is not the head teacher standing at the door demanding that you pay up, they know that by coding an absence as unauthorised the fine/prosecution should/will/may not (delete as appropriate depending on where you live) follow. sorry, but I have already had an issue with a head saying "not my fault, I am just following orders" well it is the H/T fault if he/she chooses to code it as unauthorised then they know the law. so in my mind, the fine has come about due to an action by the H/t therefore it is their decision and theirs alone.

Yes, I am aware.

In some areas it's getting silly and is destroying the partnership parents and school staff need to have. I know as a child I would have bitterly resented being refused permission to attend a grandparents funeral - that would have filtered into my attitude towards my teachers. I know that's wrong, but it's how I'd have felt. Emotions are so hard to control, especially at a time of grief.

Any relationship requires a bit of sensible give and take, whether that be between boss and employee, or school and parents. Schools NEED parents totally onside and supportive of their efforts. The jobsworths cause incalculable damage. A parent who has been refused permission to attend a family funeral is going to be less likely to bend over backwards to volunteer for trips/reading sessions/pta tasks etc. Over time community support for schools like this will lessen, and with it sadly standards.

In other news at any given time many SN kids are out of school/on part time placements as the school system is unable to offer the support they need in a timely manner. The hypocrisy of this drives me nuts!

I don't have much sympathy for the mid term trip to Disneyland requests, but a bit of common sense and compassion goes a long way.

That may very well be the case, my ex made it sound like the school would fine us, but if that isn't the case, and I had known it, I would have pushed to have her off that extra day.

I agree with you bochead.

Sadly though I think we've been left with no option but to give very little room for manoeuvre. It's a shitty situation really.

For every child in a school who needs time off to attend a funeral, several more will be coached to lie about grandma dying. It's shit.

so, unless all parents those directly affected and those not affected get together and tell the govt to rescind this legislation it is not going to happen. if Cameron realises that it is a middle England vote loser then it will be ditched. we all need to write to our MP's and get MN to take this on. H/T should be leading on this. they are the ones who will be demonised by parents and they and the schools will suffer directly and indirectly when pissed off parents stop helping out at the PTFA or stop engaging with them as they should. my h/t is an intelligent person quite capable of deciding who should and shouldn't have time off and when. now h/t is being treated like an idiot unable to exercise discretion.

Slight exaggeration, but it happens.

Just as an example, either side of school holidays see a big spike in family funerals, some of those will be genuine, many aren't and the schools are perfectly aware of that.

So what can they do? Nobody wants to say no to a genuinely 'exceptional' circumstance but there has to be a way of closing it off as an option to those who are being dishonest. And you can't discriminate based on hunch. All that's left is to allow very little in the way of authorised TTL.

It's a shame this is leading to bad feeling between parents and schools, but I genuinely believe the fretting over fines is based on hype.

The vast majority of a rents, even those with less than perfect attendance, have nothing to worry about.

Patterns of absence are very easy to spot. It's really not a scattergun approach being used when issuing fines.

Awful as it sounds there is an annual naturally occuring mortality spike every Jan/Feb due to the flu season and cold weather. Could some of these spikes in requests be due to this? Or due to the fact that families TRY and arrange events to suit schools, but holiday dates are not uniform across the nation, so those extended family members in the "wrong" county lose out?

I used to live in a very deprived multi-cultural inner London area for many years and just didn't meet the legions of totally uncaring parents the media likes to depict. It's the norm now in a way it wasn't in the 1970's for parents to care about their kids education as you seem to need an NVQ even do the most traditionally menial job nowadays. I'm not sure politicians have totally caught up with the changing aspirations of the working classes yet from their ivory towers.

We were very unlucky in that his funeral wasn't long before Christmas, but I would quite happily have provided proof that I wasn't lying about a funeral. It was hard for my DD to miss the coffin, it was very specially decorated as a magic wand as my step-dad was a magician, and she made so many people at the wake laugh with her behaviour, she really was a credit to me and managed the whole thing really well. I just would have liked for her to have a bit more time afterwards to process it and be able to discuss her thoughts and feelings with her, as she had lots of questions about these things, and I try to normalize it as much as possible and answer those questions when they come up. Her presence was as much for us adults as it was for her to say goodbye to her special granddad, having children really helped at a difficult time to remind us that people do live on in ourselves and our children, I felt sad the school couldn't accommodate that.

I've given up asking for permission
we don't take term time holidays, but did remove the DC on two occasions for family weddings taking place on Fridays. On these occasions we simply informed the school that DC would not be there. Nothing came of it.

TBH I would have no moral qualms with throwing a sickie, as I think the current rules are insane, but can't trust motormouth DD1 to stay on message.

There are many things wrong with lying and getting your children to lie.

1. If you genuinely believe the rules are wrong, you should take your child out for whatever reason it is and tell the truth about it - on principle.
2. You are asking your child to deliberately lie to their teacher. Just imagine how you would feel if your teacher deliberately lied to your child.
3. You are damaging your relationship with the school. We all know when parents are lying, regardless of how good their previous attendance is.
4. You resort to bad mouthing the school to justify your actions, saying "they do nothing in the last few days anyway" and "My DCs learn more in a week's holiday than they learn at school".

Just take them out of school and tell the truth ffs.

The media keep reporting it as an issue with people taking holidays for a week to save money.

But many people seem to be more worried about single / 2 day absences.

private schools want you to spend money

they will bend the rules to get your cash

I bet private schools aren't too worried if you asked for a day off.

Seeing as how you are the customer.

Please don't call in sick. I'm a teacher and it's awful for the child when they come back and their teacher, believing they were ill, asks them if they're feeling better. They either have to lie or own up and either way, a child shouldn't be put in that situation. Another child will probably dob you in anyway to be honest. Just say the real reason. I'd be amazed if you were fined for one day.

I agree & in this case it's a Friday and will be long forgotten by Monday.
My problem is that I ask for it rather than informing them of it. I am putting the HT in a position to decide what I do not think should be her decision, ie to open me to any kind of official censure.
I do not think it should be in her power to do that to a model parent, former governor and massive supporter of the HT and the school.
This puts me with a begging bowl in what should be a relationship of respect and consensus that we both want what's best for my kids.
I object to the kind of submissiveness this makes me feel, it's an obnoxious feeling to sit and wonder whether she will be gracious because if she says no I have no room for manoeuvre and scupper my chance to pull a sickie having been given no option. So parent enfeebled, embarrassed, awkward, ambivalent, accused, it just feels wrong & puts both sides in an invidious position. The LA should not be involved at all, Persistent cases: fine. But for One day once in a blue moon? I have no faith that I would be protected by the LA. they seem to operate at times on bizarre ethics.
This is a country where most burglaries remain uninvestigated and we are making sensible parents feel antagonised and alienated. This is not what good policies should do.
You don't treat a driver who goes 35 once in a 30 mile zone the same as a drunk driver who runs over a child do you? You can't treat all absences with one tool. It can't work because they're not the same thing .

If there was one MN campaign I would support it's one to end this ridiculous law.

By all means go after parents who's DC attendance approaches 2 weeks off in a term or three weeks off in the year.

Otherwise piss off.

If you want to frame a law that prevents poor attendance by disorganised in need of support parents and truanting teens, that's fine.

One that turns education supporting ordinary parents into criminals and liars is not!

well said starballbunny. there are so many threads about this on MN now. pity they don't start something. not even hearing any debates in the media on it. surely there are some journos on here somewhere that would cover it? Just heard the latest bonkers think tank plan about making the school day 9 - 6pm. when will Gove stop.

We've had three odd days and a week in centre parks in term time (back when DD1 was in y2 and DD2 was at nursery and the HT couldn't have cared less), in 12 years.

The three days were returning from my Jewish friends (Sunday to have the rabbi bless it) - we returned via Jodrel Bank telescope.

DD2 hear her sister in a schools concert in London - we went to the science museum (so both these ended up being educational)

And one day I confess because we got bak from the USA very late and overslept (rang HT to apologise and he said no worries leave them asleep).

Centre parks was the only week available, I only went in term because I knew HT wouldn't mind, but I suspect it was massively safer in the pool for DD2 (who did all the water shoots) with less large DCs.

Sorry this is a bit of an essay, but what I'm trying to say is that all the term time days we have ever had come with very special family memories and worthwhile experiences for the DDs.

Last year we took the children out a day early to go on holiday.

I sent a letter in saying they would be absent and that I understood this would be marked as unauthorised. I never heard a word back.

But other parents who sent a letter in received a letter saying it would marked as unauthorised.