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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Pit bull -- am I being unreasonable?

117 replies

kcoll · 29/01/2014 09:44

I LOVE dogs. I have had dogs my entire life, from the day I was born until recently, when I moved to a flat and sent my most beloved collie to live with my parents because they live in the countryside and could offer a better quality of life for her.

The reason I write is this is that I have a 9 month old baby, and my friend, who has a 10 month old baby, owns a pit bull mix. The dog was illegally imported on falsified papers, as they dog was DNA tested and confirmed to be part pit bull, part labrador. The dog looks very much like a pit bull -- quite large, highly muscular build, jaw, etc. The dog has a history of biting people (3 bites in its 9 year life span) and I have personally seen her nip at people's faces. She is an often sweet, but nervous and protective dog. I have seen her flash from timid to ferocious in an instant on more than one occasion.

I was fine to go to her house before I had a child. I know how to act around nervous dogs I would never put my face near the dog's, etc. But when I had my baby I told my friend that I could not go to her house anymore. She still invited me around...and I went because they said they would keep the dog in another room or outside. I have gone over a couple times and they do keep her away sometimes, and other times they try for a little while and then let the dog run around because the dog is crying and wants to be near her people, as dogs do. When this happens I hold my child far away from the dog. I would NEVER consider letting my child stay alone with them at their house as, even if they were being careful, the dog could get out and there is the chance of an attack. Particularly as the kids get older, all it takes if for one of them to let the dog out. Slim chance of danger but nonetheless I would never put my child at risk. This is not to mention that 2 children are killed a year by dangerous breeds (not labs or collies) that's a fact in black and white. There was a Jack Russell that was part of an attack once, and people hold that up as reasoning that it can be any dog, however it was a Jack Russell and a Staff bull terrier, which is basically a smaller various of a bit pull, and pack mentality can take over when more than one dog is involved in such cases.

The fact that she keeps her child around this dog makes me uncomfortable, frankly, because back to the statistics it is always (100%) of the time in the last 7 years in the UK, been the child of the family that dies (so statistically it would be her child not mine who is more at risk). Would you stand by and let a baby be at risk? I suppose there's nothing I can do by UK law....

Then recently I tried to organise a trip to a country hotel with this couple and another couple with the same aged baby. The hotel accepts dogs and i asked them not to bring their dog, and they have flatly refused not to bring the dog. We have gone away with them before with the dog and they let the dog run free and it made me INCREDIBLY nervous due to the dog's temperament, history of biting and it's genetic make-up these dogs are designed to kill other very strong dogs and humans, collies are designed to nip, labs are designed to carry things softly in their mouths, Jack Russells are designed to kill rats. I am nervous for the other unsuspecting children/parents and other dogs (my childhood dog was killed by our neighbour's pit bull mix). She is implying that I am being overly sensitive and unreasonable. What do you think and how would you handle the situation?

OP posts:
cashewfrenzy · 13/02/2014 11:16

The reason bull breeds are overrepresented in kill statistics is that they are OFTEN bred for profit by ignorant twunts, under-socialised, they go to dreadful inappropriate homes on the spur of the moment, receive little or no training and are owned by people who have a poor understanding of normal dog behaviour and dubious motives.

Breed is irrelevant. Upbringing, socialisation and the owner's knowledge and understanding are critical. Saying breed relates to attacks is like saying, to use a crude but hopefully eye opening analogy, that more murderers are black because black people are inherently aggressive. Of course that is a completely ridiculous statement to make and even if the statistics bore out such a claim we'd have the insight surely to know that social factors are critical here, not skin colour. Exactly the same with dogs.

If people really want their children to be safe sound dogs then we need education starting in preschool.

OP, this dog has unresolved anxiety issues which will get worse if not addressed. It is unhappy and stressed and therfore at risk of biting again. Stay away and encourage the owners to get help from an appropriate behaviour professional such as a member of the APBC. It will pay dividends.

Triliteral · 13/02/2014 12:19

"Saying breed relates to attacks is like saying, to use a crude but hopefully eye opening analogy, that more murderers are black because black people are inherently aggressive."

I disagree with the suggestion that there is no correlation between breed and behaviour. Collie dogs have been very specifically bred over the years to be interested in herding. Not all collies will adhere to that, but many do it naturally and many other breeds do not. Japanese Akitas were bred to be fighting dogs. Genetically they have been bred in the past to be fierce. Pit-bulls the same. I am fully aware that you can get very nice Pit Bulls (I'm a vet, and I've met plenty) but to suggest that there is no correlation whatsoever is just, in my opinion, incorrect.

SinisterBuggyMonth · 13/02/2014 12:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cashewfrenzy · 13/02/2014 12:31

I'm also a vet Tri and there is an epidemic of this problem in the UK. These bite statistics are not a breed-related problem. Focusing on breeds prevents the real issue being addressed, and that's the fundamental lack of understanding of canine behaviour and learning. It is only because dogs are such a forgiving species that we get away with so few tragedies.

SPsMrLoverManSHABBA · 13/02/2014 12:34

I grew up with a pit bull. She was soft as shit as that's how we brought her up.

Our tiny jack Russell was scarier than her.

The dog been dangerous and already a biter is another matter. Any dog, no matter the breed should act like that so something does need doing

catsrus · 13/02/2014 12:52

An 11-month-old baby girl was killed by a "pit bull terrier-type" dog while asleep upstairs in bed, police said Monday night www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-26131934

likeit · 13/02/2014 13:02

What is the attraction of a dog like that? I just don't get it.

KarmaVersusGeorgeOsbourne · 13/02/2014 13:23

People like this are just awful. They get hold of these poor dogs, for whatever reason, do not give them the proper training, and are in denial about how dangerous and antisocial the dog ultimately becomes. But they just don't give a shit, because they are not the ones to suffer- it's usually members of the public,inc small children, other people's family pets, livestock, and the dog itself, which ends up having to be PTS. All while the inept owners bleat about how much they love their pet.

Shonajoy · 13/02/2014 13:53

Report anonymously as you think it looks like a pit bull.

Shonajoy · 13/02/2014 13:55

The attraction is I'm hard, I've got a huge penis. I worked in puppy training classes and omg the number of Akitas was terrifying. They're one I avoid like the plague too I'm afraid.

HandbagCrazy · 13/02/2014 14:15

I havent read the full thread but Im completely split on this. If any dog is dangerous, of course you shouldnt spend time around it, especially if you have a child.

However, in my previous job I worked with dogs and believe very strongly that how you treat and train a dog has the biggest influence on its temperament. Just because her dog is a large, strong dog, it doesnt necessarily follow that it will be nasty. My old family dog was a bull terrier. People were terrified of him but he was lovely, was too soft to defend himself even when next doors yorkie bit him. I have a jack russell now, again, has never bitten anyone because of how he's been trained.

If your friend chooses to take her dog everywhere with her, thats her choice. Your choice is whether to go. If the dog makes you nervous, stay away, but you cant tell her she cant take her dog with her.

Triliteral · 13/02/2014 14:26

"I'm also a vet Tri and there is an epidemic of this problem in the UK. These bite statistics are not a breed-related problem. Focusing on breeds prevents the real issue being addressed, and that's the fundamental lack of understanding of canine behaviour and learning. It is only because dogs are such a forgiving species that we get away with so few tragedies."

Okay, no problem at all. I agree absolutely that demonising any specific breed isn't remotely helpful. I just felt it was technically incorrect to say that dogs were not sometimes bred for temperamental characteristics as well as physical ones.

LiberalLibertine · 13/02/2014 14:41

Op,I haven't read the whole thread,I would just plead with you to report this dog. And don't go round there at all with your child, if that dog flipped you couldn't stop it, neither could they.

It's heart breaking the dog will probably be destroyed, but hopefully it will be before it tears a child apart.

Mim78 · 13/02/2014 15:24

Call the police.

It is possible that the dog wouldn't be put down if as an individual it was proved to be not dangerous and a number of v strict conditions were put on it, but the circumstances in which your friend got the dog make this less likely.

RainYourRottingMyDhaliaBulbs · 13/02/2014 15:30

YOU cant demonise a breed on the other hand, how many times does a Maltese attacking make it into the papers? Or dogs that are bred to be lap dogs?

These types of dogs make it into papers because they do lot of damage when they attack, how many times have we read " he was such a lovley dog, he has never hurt anyone before he just turned".

Are all those dogs badly treated...most dog attacks come from the family pet...that just turned....and always staffy dogs and so on...never the bichon friese...or maltese...

Aliwithtwins · 13/02/2014 15:31

I love dogs to. Have always had dogs, and would never see dogs hurt or put down unnecessarily. I also have kids. You need to report this and you are absolutely doing the right thing not going round with your baby.

RainYourRottingMyDhaliaBulbs · 13/02/2014 15:34

BTW I have a lap dog..I can hardly walk down a street without adults and children wanting to pet her, BUT I totally understand peoples fear, and if people come round and they are afraid, she goes in the kitchen I would never ever thrust her on anyone, she is part of the family but humans come first and babies come before that.

I trust my dog but not 100% she is a dog after all and one day a perfect storm of facotrs could contribute to an attack...

peole who dont think this should not be allowed dogs

rainbowfeet · 13/02/2014 15:46

This thread is making me anxious for your friends dc's .. I'm sorry but I would not have my child anywhere near this type of dog especially as it has already shown aggression & I'd also report the dog to the police... Imagine how you would feel if you didn't. & heaven forbid the dog hurt someone

HoneyDragon · 13/02/2014 15:57

A dog that bites without warning is usually a mistreated dog used to cruelty.

purplebaubles · 13/02/2014 16:06

Honey that is such a sweeping statement. Dogs can bite for no reason whatsoever really. They're animals. It could be ill. It could be getting annoyed. It doesn't have to be mistreated. Dogs (of any breed) + babies is a bad combination.

OP you need to report this dog now. I think the safety of the baby trumps any kind of sympathy for the dog in this circumstance. It's illegal, and you're concerned (rightly) about the wellbeing of a child. Report report report.

frugalfuzzpig · 13/02/2014 16:20

Well done for planning to report, hope they act on it

HoneyDragon · 13/02/2014 16:24

Yes but illness is a warning, and a reason.

It's not a sweeping statement.

If you ignore a dog to the point where it's first instinct is to bite. Not snap bark or growl, but bite than give me another reason?

Its also a sweeping statement to say all dogs and babies are a bad combination.

SpoonfulOfJam · 13/02/2014 16:25

Please report this dog. I feel sick thinking about that dog and that baby in the same room.

RedFocus · 13/02/2014 16:36

It's already bitten 3 people you said?! Surely that's reason enough to report it or will you just wait until it's ripped the face off a baby?! I really don't know how you can just sit there and do nothing. Shame on you!

LondonNicki · 13/02/2014 18:15

I think someone needs to be a responsible adult to protect that child. The baby can't protect itself, the parents don't feel it's a risk so that really only leaves you.

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