Pit bull -- am I being unreasonable?

[kcoll]

I LOVE dogs. I have had dogs my entire life, from the day I was born until recently, when I moved to a flat and sent my most beloved collie to live with my parents because they live in the countryside and could offer a better quality of life for her.

The reason I write is this is that I have a 9 month old baby, and my friend, who has a 10 month old baby, owns a pit bull mix. The dog was illegally imported on falsified papers, as they dog was DNA tested and confirmed to be part pit bull, part labrador. The dog looks very much like a pit bull -- quite large, highly muscular build, jaw, etc. The dog has a history of biting people (3 bites in its 9 year life span) and I have personally seen her nip at people's faces. She is an often sweet, but nervous and protective dog. I have seen her flash from timid to ferocious in an instant on more than one occasion.

I was fine to go to her house before I had a child. I know how to act around nervous dogs I would never put my face near the dog's, etc. But when I had my baby I told my friend that I could not go to her house anymore. She still invited me around...and I went because they said they would keep the dog in another room or outside. I have gone over a couple times and they do keep her away sometimes, and other times they try for a little while and then let the dog run around because the dog is crying and wants to be near her people, as dogs do. When this happens I hold my child far away from the dog. I would NEVER consider letting my child stay alone with them at their house as, even if they were being careful, the dog could get out and there is the chance of an attack. Particularly as the kids get older, all it takes if for one of them to let the dog out. Slim chance of danger but nonetheless I would never put my child at risk. This is not to mention that 2 children are killed a year by dangerous breeds (not labs or collies) that's a fact in black and white. There was a Jack Russell that was part of an attack once, and people hold that up as reasoning that it can be any dog, however it was a Jack Russell and a Staff bull terrier, which is basically a smaller various of a bit pull, and pack mentality can take over when more than one dog is involved in such cases.

The fact that she keeps her child around this dog makes me uncomfortable, frankly, because back to the statistics it is always (100%) of the time in the last 7 years in the UK, been the child of the family that dies (so statistically it would be her child not mine who is more at risk). Would you stand by and let a baby be at risk? I suppose there's nothing I can do by UK law....

Then recently I tried to organise a trip to a country hotel with this couple and another couple with the same aged baby. The hotel accepts dogs and i asked them not to bring their dog, and they have flatly refused not to bring the dog. We have gone away with them before with the dog and they let the dog run free and it made me INCREDIBLY nervous due to the dog's temperament, history of biting and it's genetic make-up these dogs are designed to kill other very strong dogs and humans, collies are designed to nip, labs are designed to carry things softly in their mouths, Jack Russells are designed to kill rats. I am nervous for the other unsuspecting children/parents and other dogs (my childhood dog was killed by our neighbour's pit bull mix). She is implying that I am being overly sensitive and unreasonable. What do you think and how would you handle the situation?

Yanbu to be so unhappy about this dog. I would report it and stay away from it especially with my baby. I say this as a dog lover.

No interest in the rest of the thread, just want to correct OP - A SBT is NOT a smaller version of a pit bull.

www.nytimes.com/1997/09/14/us/after-movies-unwanted-dalmatians.html Any dog can be dangerous.

With a history of biting, this pit-bull type is a liability. She needs serious training or rehoming with someone experienced. I'm saying this as a person who has a potentially dangerous looking rescue dog and I've worked very hard over the years to make him into a friendly, sociable pet. Owners being in denial or not being in full control will lead to a tragedy and the breed will get blamed instead of the master.

Perhaps the reason that certain breeds get the reputation they do is because of the sort of owners they attract?

It is definitely the owner not the dog and these people are crap dog owners. Report.( And I've owned several bull mastiffs who were trained to be the most lovely soppy family dogs.

Definitely report. Its completely irrelevant which breed it is. It obviously has issues.

The bit about mini pit bull jack russells and 'designed to kill humans' is frankly ridiculous.

So, you have lectured us all on the statistics. The only thing to ask now is...what are YOU going to do?

Having thought about it over night, I still think that a very powerfully jawed dog is a risk I would never choose to have around my child regardless of breed and how well trained it is (the latter, I do realise is key, so I am not judging people with larger dogs who are very well socialised my mother grew up with German shepherds, without incident)....but in this case of this particular dog it has not been trained or socialised properly hence the biting incidents and me personally having seen it snap at people on various occasions. And yes, I have been mad to bring my child around it even while being very careful.

My friends have refused to give my concerns any credence and have basically called me crazy. They said they would keep the dog away from my child or on a lead, but that it is part of the 'family.' Not good enough and I have told them as much, not to mention I feel like saying, 'My brother is a convicted pedophile do you mind if I bring him around your son? He's part of our family....' But how do you rationalise with the irrational? At any rate, they are clearly showing extremely poor judgement, and my concern now falls on their child and other unsuspecting families. I am off to find out how to report the dog. Thanks for your comments, they have been very helpful.

(PSI do not have a brother, let alone one who is a pedophile just for illustrative purposes!)

from timid to ferocious

often the most dangerous of all.

I think you should make sure that you never come into contact with the dog again, never go there, and if they turn up with it anywhere leave.

Report, and keep a log of the report , full name of person,reference number, time and date, as this will end with something serious, so make sure that the police and RSPCA know you are keeping details, as you believe this will end badly, and you want to be clear that they had been informed.

and tell your friend, they need to keep a hard muzzle on the dog at all times, and they need to be honest with themselves about the situation.

and have a think about if you need deluded people in your life, it tends to end badly, use your energy on positive people.

Glad you came to that conclusion - you're definitely doing the right thing.

How come the dog has already bitten so many people and not one of them has reported it?

I was with you up until the labouring the point about breeds and trying to claim that labs and collies can't be dangerous.

If you can take your head out of your arse for a moment, the facts are there is a dangerous dog that hasn't had its behaviour properly address when it showed signs of aggression.

Added to the mix is a child who lives with the dog, and a family who think it has some sort of precious status which means it gets its own way.

The breed is TOTALLY irrelevant, and having known about the aggressive track record, you are negligent for not having done something about this before.

You lecture us on how many children are killed by family pets, yet your only concern is your child when you visit? Nice.

Dog DNA testing is very unreliable. Pitbulls are identified on facial measurements which is also massively unreliable.

Some, totally non aggressive dogs have been erroneously killed as pit bulls.

Why on earth, would they go around telling people they had an idea gal breed in the UK and that they falsified papers?

And speculation that a vet was paid off? I highly doubt that in such a litigation rich country?

I think possibly they should keep the dog and have their child removed to be raised with people who are less thick.

If the dog is as dangerous as you state and has bitten 3 people and regularly nips people's faces that by all means report the dog.

You seem to have a lot of information from your friends already. Rather than speculating on here ask them direct what else you need to know and then act accordingly.

A pitbull that has bitten 3 times??? Report it, ffs, before the worst happens. That dog is a fucking grenade that's had it's pin pulled.

Rubbish! What part of "dangerous dog" don't you understand?

We see these tragedies frequently, and another one is going to happen here sooner or later. Do you OP want it on your conscience?
The dog needs to be put down NOW.

They said they would keep the dog away from my child or on a lead, but that it is part of the 'family'

This actually makes you sounds very nasty.

You do have to show some understanding here. They have had this dog a while, and they love it. It's not going to be easy for them to give up a beloved pet no matter what the dogs done.

I have already said thy have been incredibly irresponsible and as a result that poor dogs future is looking very bleak. It's true, they are idiots , the kind of people who make me angry with their reckless decisions. And yeah the dog needs removing and I hope to god it can go to someone who can follow rules and train, socialise , muzzle etc.

But please, do try and realise that idiots or not they love this dog and that this won't be easy for them.

I'm a dog lover and the proud owner of a lovely staffy. I would report this dog in a heartbeat knowing full well that its almost certain to be pts. Sad for the dog, but not your fault, it's the fault of the owners who knowingly imported a banned breed of dog into the uk under false papers.
There isn't any question that the dog will at some point bite again, it's only a matter of who it bites and how badly. Don't let the person it bites be your child or theirs, the only way you can protect your child is not have it in the house (trust me there isn't much barring a brick wall that will stop a pit bull when it wants to attack) and the only way you can protect their child is to report the dog and hope that the authorities have the dog PTS. It's a time bomb ticking away.

When I read about that poor baby girl being mauled by her pet dog this week it made me think of this thread.

I hope your friend rethinks keeping her dog as a pet in her family.

I know very little about dogs as I am a cat lover but I wouldn't leave any animal alone with a baby dog or cat.

your friends obviously love their dog so you would be doing them a favour reporting it. it would protect them and their child or other children and take the responsibility off them.

although anyone who brags about having an illegal dog dies sound a trifle thick.

report your friends.

they're being so irresponsible.

that story about that poor girl being mauled by an illegal dog.

I would act now before anyone else gets hurt.

some idiots shouldn't be allowed to have a dog.

I have a pitbull cross (they're not illegal here in NSW) and he's genuinely one of the most useless, stupid pitbulls you could ever meet! He'd much rather curl up on the sofa under a blanket or drool on your feet waiting for you to share your dinner than hurt anyone but I'm always aware there could be issues.

I've only ever heard him growl twice and that was at me because I was tickling DD (13) and she was squealing and he thought she was in trouble. He has attacked the ride on lawn mower and compressor before as he was trying to save Grandad from them!! He's a touch dumb.

I love him to death, he's a beautiful boy who loves all of us but the first time he bites someone without warning will be the day I have him pts.

Your friends are not responsible dog owners, sorry to be blunt but they need to have the dog pts. Ignoring the fact he's an illegal dog he's unpredictable, unreliable and dangerous. A dog that will bite without warnings first (growling or change in body language) is a liability and should be pts before someone gets seriously hurt.

I would get straight onto police they sound utterly irresponsible anyway and disgusting attitude.

Well done on deciding to report the dog, kcoll. Don't know anything much about UK dog law or what will happen next; but I think it would have been wrong & irresponsible not to inform the authorities, given your friends have told you it's an illegal breed. I would think that even if the dog hadn't bitten before.

Of course YANBU not to let the dog anywhere near your child.

that dog needs putting down asap before it kills or maims someone. please report it to police and get ss involved to protect that vulnerable baby.

KColl good for you and you are making a step to keep us all safe let alone their own child.