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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To have never worried for a second about the possibility of my children being abducted...

326 replies

curlew · 28/01/2014 12:33

......and to have never, as far as I can remember, made any decisions based on the possibility or factored it in to any plans I have made or actions I have taken?

Is this unusual? Do most people worry about this?

OP posts:
lljkk · 28/01/2014 16:55

yanbu.
A stranger tried to abduct me once when I was 15 or 16. I don't think I worry about it with DC. I could freak out if I thought how vulnerable DD is for being female (so I don't think about it).
I don't want to rank awful ways to live or die, but Kids who live with daily cruelty or horrors are a lot more upsetting to me than a kid who has a final few awful hours or a single terrible experience.

bodygoingsouth · 28/01/2014 16:55

I have never met a parent who hadn't worried about abduction by a stranger or abuse by a known adult.

personally I factored both if these things into my parenting alongside teaching them road safety and how to swim.

if you don't give kids the knowledge and the tools to cope in situations them they can't protect themselves.

I saw the tent post and completely understood.

like is all I guess my kids are my most precious possession and having thought for a few hours a while back that dd had been killed I find it very hard to not live in fear of loosing one of them.

but it has to be balanced and proportionate.

bodygoingsouth · 28/01/2014 16:59

on the going to the toilet in costa? a girl was raped in a sainsburys toilet and a bit was raped in mc Donald's.

police often warn parents about allowing children to access public toilets by themselves however busy the shop so please don't do it.

Original poster
curlew · 28/01/2014 17:13

Bodygoingsouth- I have never heard the police saying that. But anyway, my point was that my friend would not let her child use the loo in this particular Costa (not our usual one) because it had two doors. It was specifically stranger abduction that was worrying her.

OP posts:
LadyInDisguise · 28/01/2014 17:14

I agree curlew that the risk IS small. The risk of being raped by a relative is much higher. As is the risk of a car accident.

I also have an issue with the whole 'Don't talk to strangers, don't ever go anywhere with anyone' thing. That's what my dcs have been taught at school. Then we meet a woman in the street, a neighbour, and I say hello to her. dc was completely lost as to why I said hello. 'But we don't know her!'. Except that we had been seen her everyday for the last 3 years at the same time, going to school... (And she then happened to become one of the dinner ladies there too!)
And then when ds got lost trying to find me Hmm, was the advice of 'not talking to stranger' the right one? No talking meant no help .....

I really think that we need to be much more aware of the real risk. Yes if course, some people will have had 'bad' experiences. I had, incl spending the weekend with an old guy, friend of my parents, that was (very) close to be a pervert. But compared to being in a car crash, hurting themselves on the play equipment, being bullied by older children at the park, the risk IS small indeed.

BertieBottsJustGotMarried · 28/01/2014 17:15

That happened in my town Body and the local paper interview with the mother was absolutely heartbreaking - she kept saying "I shouldn't have let her go alone. But what parent doesn't let their 11 year old use the toilet alone? You assume they'll be OK." It was a 15 year old boy, they found in the end. It could have happened in a school or anywhere. I felt for her because she was right - she couldn't have protected her daughter, but she kept thinking "What if" and blaming herself anyway.

everlong · 28/01/2014 17:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LeBFG · 28/01/2014 17:22

But what ARE you to do Bertie: not let your 15yo go to the toilet alone? Take the bus alone? Not walk to school? I mean, you just can't prevent everything bad happening.

LeBFG · 28/01/2014 17:24

Sorry, I read 15yo not 11yo Blush but I still stand by my point.

Ragwort · 28/01/2014 17:25

I don't think it is a 'weird thread subject' because this sort of thing crops up quite frequently on Mumsnet - ie: the fear of leaving your child whilst you nip into a shop or pay for petrol etc - it would never dawn on me to think my child might be abducted in that sort of scenario. I know it does happen but the statistics are so incredibly low that I just wouldn't worry about it; yet there are clearly lots of Mumsnetters who would never leave their child in that sort of situation - when realistically the liklihood of an accident if you take your child out of the car and into the kiosk to pay for the petrol is probably higher than an 'abduction' risk.

PacificDogwood · 28/01/2014 17:26

YANBU.

But I think those of us who agree with you are a shrinking minority.
IMO it's part of a growing general anxiety in society Sad

Sparklysilversequins · 28/01/2014 17:28

I think if you don't worry about it for a second and do not take any kind of steps to prevent then you cannot possibly say you did everything you could to protect your child if the worst should happen.

The risk is so small? And yet there are many posters on here who have experienced situations that many have had the potential to lead to just such a scenario, it's just been pure luck that all the pieces didn't fall into place to allow that to happen.

This is an old study and the figures aren't high but worth a read I think The Guardian

Thetallesttower · 28/01/2014 17:29

I do let my dd's use public toilets by themselves and will carry on doing so, the risk is low. It's important children can go to the toilet without an adult outside the door- on school trips, out with friends when 11 onwards, if traveling to school.

LadyCurlew I agree about the stranger danger being bad advice, my dd once had to depend on the kindness of strangers and if she'd run off it would have been a disaster. Also- my children didn't get what a stranger was- so it was all a bit pointless (people with dogs they liked who smiled- not strangers to my 5 year old for example).

everlong · 28/01/2014 17:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
curlew · 28/01/2014 17:33

Hang on- so you can only ever start threads about things everyone agrees on? That might be a bit dull, don't you think?

OP posts:
everlong · 28/01/2014 17:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bodygoingsouth · 28/01/2014 17:36

Bertie yes heartbreaking and if course not mums fault at all but the badtard who raised her.

I use my rule of thumb as an ex cm, would I let mindees go to a public toilet alone while I carried in shopping with the others, the answer is no. not under 14 probably. so why would I let my own kids.

curlew the police warned parents to remember shop toilets are just as public as those in the high street and asked parents to accompany their children.

LeBfg of course you have to balance risk with statistical reality but to say you have never considered the possibility of abduction or ever factored it into your plans sounds a bit daft to be honest. that's what the op said.

never heard a parent ever think that really.

Original poster
curlew · 28/01/2014 17:38

"curlew the police warned parents to remember shop toilets are just as public as those in the high street and asked parents to accompany their children. "

When and where?

OP posts:
bodygoingsouth · 28/01/2014 17:40

re stranger danger! if all you teach children is don't talk to strangers then you may as well not bother.

you need to teach them how to keep safe and in lots of cases that could mean accessing help from a stranger.

you teach them strategies, you role play, you ask them what would you do in a situation?

just to say 'oh well it's such a small risk we won't bother and you lot are all hysterical' is to me as neglectful as not teaching road safety or how to swim.

BertieBottsJustGotMarried · 28/01/2014 17:41

BFG I said upthread you can't prevent it, no - and IMO you shouldn't let it curtail their freedom. I take DS in with me but he's 5 and it's more worry about him locking himself in/touching something disgusting or not being able to open a heavy door.

I felt the mum was beating herself up unnecessarily. Yes she COULD have gone with her 11 year old but that way breeds madness. It's perfectly normal for an 11 year old to use a public toilet alone. I don't think it's helpful to speculate over whether you've done everything you can as long as you've taken reasonable precautions. Accompanying an 11 year old to the toilet is not a reasonable precaution. The mother had done everything reasonable to protect her little girl and something bad still happened.

jonicomelately · 28/01/2014 17:42

I often wonder whether the Jamie Bulger case has had a subconscious impact on our generation as a whole.

bodygoingsouth · 28/01/2014 17:42

saw a police inspector saying just that after the girl was raped in sainsburys.

I don't lie and am not a drama queen op.

LadyInDisguise · 28/01/2014 17:45

I think if you don't worry about it for a second and do not take any kind of steps to prevent then you cannot possibly say you did everything you could to protect your child if the worst should happen.

But the thing you CAN NOT protect them from all the dangers around. That's what we are being told again and again. Don't do this it might be dangerous. oh and don't do that and that either.

Eg, (real) one want to change the lights. So you can take a step ladder, climb, change the light go down. Ah yes but it's dangerous so you need to take all the appropriate steps to protect the person working. So you need a small 'elevator' with protection all around so the person can't fall etc etc. Changing the light now takes 1/2 hour instead of 5mins. oh and yes you can't change the lights upstairs any more as there is no lift for the small 'elevator' thingy...
Move that to children and ... you end up stopping them from learning to live by protecting them from all the dangers they could possibly face.
That's not what parenting is about. Children will never be streetwise by being cocooned from the dangers. You can talk and talk, stop them from doing x and Y but at some point they will be alone and then what? They still won't know how to deal with the situation. They might not 10, they might be 20yo. But they still won't.

5madthings · 28/01/2014 17:46

Sorry did I understand that right body that you wouldnt let a child under the age of 14 go to the toilet on their own? We are talking when out, so public toilets, shopping centres and restaraunts etc?

BertieBottsJustGotMarried · 28/01/2014 17:48

I would let an 11 year old use public toilets on a street alone too. I don't think she was at fault in any way but of course you blame yourself.

IIRC police at the time were urging caution, my gut feeling is that it makes people feel safer to think there's something they can do. If a policeman comes on TV and says "Well, there's no way this could have been prevented so try not to worry about it!" that's not massively reassuring.

It's not practical to accompany an 11 year old to the toilets all of the time. As I said above, she was attacked by a 15 year old, so it could easily have happened at school, where the teachers wouldn't be accompanying children into toilets.