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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to object to Y4 teacher's "Sex and Death" comment to pupils?

102 replies

CSLewis · 28/01/2014 12:28

Dd came home one day and told me that in Art they'd been looking at Salvador Dali, and that her teacher told them that his work "is mainly about sex and death". Shock!

I am really angry with her comment, as not every 8/9 year old in the world knows what sex is, and I don't consider it a teacher's job to introduce them to the subject.

Also, if that's what she thinks about Dali, why on earth choose him for her Y4 class to study??!? Talk about insidious sexualisation of children from an ever-earlier age!

This is an "outstanding" Catholic primary, btw Hmm, tho I have plenty of atheist friends who wd also be appalled if their 8yo came home with that. Obv I don't think IABU, but what do u think?

OP posts:
pigsDOfly · 28/01/2014 14:08

Surely it's unlikely OP that the teacher is going to go into what you describe as graphic detail in the middle of an art lesson.

If you are as troubled by the idea of your 8/9yo learning basic biological information about reproduction as you sound, how are you ever going to have any conversations with her about her body or teach her about sex in an open and frank way?

Young children pick up masses of information and misinformation in the playground. You might be surprised to learn just how much she actually knows already.

My DD was made fun of by her school friends (in her very strict school) when she was 9yo when went into school telling everyone we were going to get a pussy; she didn't know the alternative meaning but most of her friends did. She was mortified when I explained to her.

wigglesrock · 28/01/2014 14:09

It really wouldn't bother me, I have an 8 year old daughter & she asked me what sex was last year, I told her & her sister who was 5 what sex was. They have a younger sister, they know about babies.

My daughters primary school does do sex education in the second last year of primary school (P6 here). It's a catholic school.

Kids don't lose their "innocence" because of a word or art or because of books.

TheDoctorsNewKidneys · 28/01/2014 14:10

Well, it's the curriculum, so she doesn't really have a choice with regards to whether she teaches it or not Confused.

Anyway, I'd be more concerned if there was an 8 year old who didn't know what sex was, tbh. Girls can get periods at that age and it is the age when their body starts to change - breasts, pubic hair, etc. If you haven't spoken to your DD about sex and puberty, you really need to get a move on, because puberty and hormones are just around the corner.

LoonvanBoon · 28/01/2014 14:11

As others have pointed out, Dali does feature in KS2 curriculum - but yes, agree with those questioning the teacher's interpretation of Dali!

As to the main point - you being "appalled" by her comment, OP, then I do think YABU. By mentioning the words sex & death the teacher is not teaching your child ABOUT sex. I don't suppose for one minute that she went into any kind of inappropriate detail.

Your child will have heard the word sex, & may well have a very odd idea about what it means from random things picked up in the playground - so I think it needs to be discussed anyway.

My twins asked me about it when they were younger than your DC, not because they were interested in the mechanics, but they were aware that many of their classmates burst into giggles at the very mention of the word - even when used to refer to whether someone is male / female. I think you're being naive.

Also disagree strongly that telling a child that something is about sex can in itself contribute to "insidious sexualisation".

RunRabbit · 28/01/2014 14:15

OP - You sound hysterical.

Making the comment 'his work is mainly about sex and death' is hardly the same as going in depth about sex.

How do you know she doesn't already know what sex is? Have you asked her?

TrollopeDollope · 28/01/2014 14:17

YABU. Sex and death are not rude words. I would also be concerned about an 8 year old who didn't know about sex (or death). Talking to your child about sex doesn't take away their 'innocence'. It makes them informed, which I consider my job as a parent.

LoveWine · 28/01/2014 14:18

What a bizarre thread...OP is upset because a TEACHER mentioned the word sex. If your child at 8 or 9 years of age has not heard that word, then I think maybe it's your fault - when do you plan to introduce the topic? When they are 15??
The teacher didn't go into the details of what sex is, just mentioned the word and you get all upset. I would get a grip and think about what I can do as a parent to introduce the topic...and soon.

DoJo · 28/01/2014 14:26

I agree - it is a teacher's job to educate their charges on all aspects of the curriculum which includes sex, specifically because some parents put it off for so long that their children end up with completely skewed ideas about what it entails. If using the word 'sex' once in the context of a lesson about art is enough to get you this worked up, perhaps you need to start discussing things like this with your daughter in order to make the whole subject a little less fraught for both of you.

If it helps, I remember my mum teaching me about it when I was 5 or 6 because I had read an article where it was mentioned - she bought a book which explained it all (with pictures - brilliant!) and we read it together and talked about it, so I understood the mechanics of it, but also had an idea that there was another aspect to it which was more complicated. This meant that I was able to weed out the truth from the speculation when my classmates started to give me their own versions, and because I still had the book, I could check the details any time I liked without having to rely on any euphemistic descriptions. Personally, I think that was a great way to do it as it was age appropriate, but also acknowledged that there was more to learn.

Fallenangle · 28/01/2014 14:27

I would be more worried about the gross over simplification of Dali's work than the mention of sex. Interpretation of the meaning of art with young children must be extremely difficult. They must be doing it well though as the school is outstanding. (no smiley for tongue in cheek)

Did they do the surealist maths test?

What is 6 times four? Answer: fish

KellyElly · 28/01/2014 14:29

I still find it totally inappropriate behaviour from the teacher. It is not her job to 'educate my child about sex"; that's MY job. Y'know, her parent? As and when I see fit. Not as and when SHE does. I hope you do it by the time she goes to secondary school, otherwise you'll find it is indeed a teacher who will be 'educating' your child about sex.

Grennie · 28/01/2014 14:32

I would be shocked if an 8 year old child in the UK knew nothing about sex.

Pregnantberry · 28/01/2014 14:45

I am concerned about the sexualisation of children as well, but to me that is more to do with 'sexy' clothing marketed at little girls, or soft-porn music videos being shown casually in the daytime. Hearing about sex in an art or science lesson, IMO, are much more appropriate ways to introduce sex to an older child.

On the other hand, for me, I would rather have 'the talk' with my children before they are introduced to sex in a classroom, and eight is quite early by a lot of people's standards so I can see why it would upset parents.

TrollopeDollope · 28/01/2014 14:52

But 8 should not be 'early by a lot of people's standards', this child could easily be having periods within a year.

AnAdventureInCakeAndWine · 28/01/2014 14:53

So did a totally random adult educate your child about sex in graphic detail, or did your child's class teacher use the word "sex" in front of her?

You seem to be carrying on as though it's the former, while from your OP it sounds as though it's the latter.

If your DD doesn't already know what sex is then this is your opportunity (as, y'know, her parent) to start to educate her. And as for "as and when I see fit", it's probably as well to do it before she starts hitting puberty (as other posters have said, it's normal for several girls in a primary school class to start their periods between Y4 and Y6. This could be your DD. It could be her best friend. If you want to be the one to educate her about this stuff then you'd better consider that timing).

But really -- she's never heard or seen the word "sex" before, anywhere? My children are pretty sheltered by most people's standards and I'm absolutely certain that they have.

PiperRose · 28/01/2014 14:53

Wouldbemedic, did I say that!?! No. And neither was the teacher. The same way she wasn't using it as an aid to teach about death.

Good grief, Dali would confuse the hell out of them. I'd go for Da Vinci's Vitruvian Man. At least all the bits are in the right place! Wink

AnAdventureInCakeAndWine · 28/01/2014 14:53

(well, DD2 hasn't, but she's deaf and can't read yet)

Grumpasaurus · 28/01/2014 14:54

Op, I am going to weigh in here rather harshly.

My career is in sexual health, especially in terms of developing education around sex and relationships with an for children and young people.

Yes, it SHOULD be the parents responsibility. But, like you, many parents refuse to accept that their children want and need to know about sex an relationships in an age appropriate way from a very young age. If your daughter doesn't know about sex, then the school has to teach her what you are failing to.

And you know what? Parents who talk to their children about sex and relationships tend to raise children who delay first sex, practice contraception and sti prevention, avoid exploitative relationships, and can negotiate safe sex and condom use.

Parents who stupidly believe their children are better off thinking babies come from storks and don't talk about anything else have children who are more likely to get pregnant, to have sex younger because they are more curious, to not take safety precautions either physically or emotionally, and to regret their first sex.

Teacher is spot on, you are definitely being unreasonable.

MrsGarlic · 28/01/2014 15:46

I think YABVU. I started my periods at 9, I think sex education should already have been well covered by year 4. I plan to tell my children the facts honestly as and when they ask, starting with simple explanations and then more biological detail as they get older. I think 8 is far, far too late to start.

And everything grumpasaurus says.

CailinDana · 28/01/2014 16:18

Keeping your child in the dark about something so important and fundamental as how her body works can't really be justified OP. Sex isn't evil - she won't suddenly turn into a porn loving stripper if she knows about it. All you are doing is ensuring that if someone wants to abuse her they have a great target - an "innocent" child whose parents are secretive about sex and create a climate of embarrassment and taboo are a paedophile's dream.

EmmelineGoulden · 28/01/2014 16:32

YABU. The teacher wasn't trying to educate your child about sex. She was tryingto educate her about art. If you think it's your job to educate her about sex you need to get on with it. She will currently be recieving a playground education. You may think she is "too young", but education about sex isn't having sex. Humans are sexual beings, even children. She has a body that has sexual organs. She sees a world in which many adults around her live in partnership with someone on the basis of mutual sexual desire. Sex is all around her. Right now. In year 4. She needs your input on it so that she can start to understand the world around her and the human condition better.

MomsStiffler · 28/01/2014 17:07

Really? So because a Teacher mentioned the word "sex" and the word "death" in front of your daughter you're getting wound up?

Grow Up.

Grennie · 28/01/2014 17:11

It is extremely traumatic for a girl if her periods start, and she doesn't understand what is happening. Girls need to know about these well ahead of time, and 9 is not an unusual age for periods to start.

Moreisnnogedag · 28/01/2014 17:14

I honestly feel sorry for teachers. There you are, clutching your pearls, because she dared say the word sex whilst delivering the national curriculum. I mean, really, what was she thinking

lljkk · 28/01/2014 17:18

If your dd DIDN'T know what sex was, would you be happy for this to be her introduction to the subject?

A) it wouldn't bother me, even if the child was only 5 or 6
B) In case of an 8yo, I'd use the conversation as a springboard to explaining long-overdue facts.

grovel · 28/01/2014 17:19

I don't object to what the teacher said per se but I think Dali is a ridiculous artist for 8 year olds to "study".