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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to object to Y4 teacher's "Sex and Death" comment to pupils?

102 replies

CSLewis · 28/01/2014 12:28

Dd came home one day and told me that in Art they'd been looking at Salvador Dali, and that her teacher told them that his work "is mainly about sex and death". Shock!

I am really angry with her comment, as not every 8/9 year old in the world knows what sex is, and I don't consider it a teacher's job to introduce them to the subject.

Also, if that's what she thinks about Dali, why on earth choose him for her Y4 class to study??!? Talk about insidious sexualisation of children from an ever-earlier age!

This is an "outstanding" Catholic primary, btw Hmm, tho I have plenty of atheist friends who wd also be appalled if their 8yo came home with that. Obv I don't think IABU, but what do u think?

OP posts:
pointythings · 28/01/2014 12:56

I would trust the teacher to talk about the subject in age appropriate ways. 'Sex' and 'Death' are not swear words. The teacher is hardly going to be dropping f-bombs all over the place when discussing Dali's work.

If a child asked for more details, I would expect the teacher to answer the questions honestly and again, in age-appropriate terms. A teacher is not a random adult.

YABU and a bit precious. I also think you have been slow off the mark in discussing major life issues with your child.

BarbarianMum · 28/01/2014 12:58

My kids (8 and 5) know what sex is and its role in procreation but that wouldn't help them understand Dali's work. Sex in its more recreational and emotional forms is something for puberty, I think.

So yes, I agree, it was not the way to deal with Dali for a group of 9 and 10 year olds.

Dawndonnaagain · 28/01/2014 12:59

The trouble is CSLewis, we have one of the highest teen pregnancy rates in Europe because so many don't educate their children.
The other point is, sex in art isn't all about the act of sex. I see no harm in it.

AwfulMaureen · 28/01/2014 13:00

You do need to chill out op. She SAID the word sex. She didn't describe it!

lilyaldrin · 28/01/2014 13:00

When do they cover sex/reproduction/puberty etc at primary school now?

following · 28/01/2014 13:01

if it is your job to teach her about sex op i would get a move on , this is something that if left too late will be very hard to open up about , then you will have big problems.

fatfingers · 28/01/2014 13:01

YANBU. My dd is also in Y4 and I would raise an eyebrow if her teacher made this comment.

LeBearPolar · 28/01/2014 13:01

If you think it's your job to educate your child about sex, are you going to be withdrawing her from the SRE? Because it's part of the NC and I don't think they're going to change it for you.

Thetallesttower · 28/01/2014 13:01

In my children's school, they covered parts of the body in Y2, so penis and so on. They also saw a short cartoon video on how babies are made. You could withdraw your child though.

It is exceptionally unlikely that they won't have heard the term 'sex' before aged 8. Songs like 'ooh sexy lady' 'wanna have sex on the beach' etc, or even on the front of the newspaper if they can read- there was an article in the Times about sex education and how boys shouldn't be learning all their info from porn but need proper sensible sex education in schools.

I see you have a girl, they need to know about periods by that age anyway, as pubertal ages have been pushed back to 8-10, my 9/10 year old daughter has pubic hair, skin changes, breast growth.

I don't find this shocking or particularly inappropriate but you do, so mention it to the teacher. But I would find it shocking if your dd is genuinely clueless about bodily functions at this age given the much earlier age of pubertal development- and to me that would include knowing what sex is. Mine have known since very little though, it's not a big deal for me that they factually know this stuff and I don't consider knowing sex makes babies to be over-sexualised- what would be over-sexualized is encouraging them to be like a grown-up woman in dress and behaviour and norms before they are old enough.

hootloop · 28/01/2014 13:01

You now have the opportunity to discuss it, the conversation goes like this
DD: teacher said this... (sex and death comment)
You: did teacher? Did you you understand what teacher meant?
Then goes one of two ways)
DD: yes... ( describes whatever playground version of sex she knows)
You: yes, a bit like that (describe sex in a way you are comfortable correcting any of her misunderstandings)

Or

Dd: no, not really, what does sex mean?
You: well it is (describe sex in terms you are comfortable with)
Dd: oh ok I thought ( tells you the playground version she thought she knew)

You now have the lines of communication open so keep them open through out her teen years and you will both be fine.

FiscalCliffRocksThisTown · 28/01/2014 13:02

My 8 yr old knows what sex is.

my other son did too, by that age.

You know, they ask where babies come from when young?

I can't see what the teacher did wrong TBH

ninah · 28/01/2014 13:02

Dali's not mainly about sex and death all, he's about the unconscious, she's talking bollocks

Pooka · 28/01/2014 13:03

But she hasn't educated your child about sex! She just said the word.

But since she has, then you have a good conversational starting point for explaining further.

5Foot5 · 28/01/2014 13:11

It is not her job to 'educate my child about sex"; that's MY job. Y'know, her parent? As and when I see fit. Not as and when SHE does.

Back in the dim and distant past (late 60s/early 70s) my little village primary decided that they would have a sex education class for the children who were 8 and above. Parents were invited to the school one evening to view the material to be shown and they could then decide whether or not to withdraw their child from the lesson.

I was only 7 at the time so, although my parents were still invited to the session, I was not scheduled to see it that year.

A family friend, whose DD was 9, was the only parent in the whole school who chose not to let her child attend the lesson. Her reasons sounded uncannily like yours ("I am her mother - I will explain it to her in my own time")

The outcome was probably quite predictable. The rest of the children lost no time in passing on a garbled version of everything they had seen and heard to my friend. She, in turn, passed some of this on to me. By which time the details sounded so unlikely that I took the whole thing with a pinch of salt.

The following year I had the lesson myself and it all made perfect sense. Much more so than the version my friend had picked up second hand.

jacks365 · 28/01/2014 13:15

Dali is part of the curriculum for y4 so the teacher had no choice over artist however the actual topic is dreams and nightmares so there was no need to mention the sex and death aspect of it if anything that could detract from the actual subject matter. Saying that I wouldn't have an issue with the word sex being used with that age and would expect them to have knowledge. I know mine did at that age.

DigestivesAndPhiladelphia · 28/01/2014 13:16

I think it is important to answer their questions honestly from an early age before they start hearing things in the playground. My DS (8) is very nosey so I was able to answer his questions well before year 4. Asking how I got pregnant was a good place to start, when he was 5. He knows it's something that consenting adults do.

Recently he came home and said that boys at his class have been saying they've had sex & done other things with girls. He told me and then said "That's not actually true is it? I think they are really stupid" and started laughing. He also told me that a boy on his class has Grand Theft Auto & that you can have sex when playing that. He was horrified (as I was! I don't know if that is actually true). My point is, he was able to tell me these things without being embarrassed or uncomfortable. Imagine if hens been hearing conversations like that and not known what was true or felt like he couldn't ask me or DH. I think that would be horrible.

You can't protect your children from all the other children they will come into contact with & from some of the inappropriate things they will hear. I'd really rather that the first conversations took place with me. I suppose that is your point OP actually, I just think that it needs to be done a bit earlier before they reach an age of feeling awkward about asking.

I have briefly discussed porn with my DS, because I know there is a horrible chance to will first come across it through other boys showing him things on their phones. We didn't go into much detail but I told him we will talk about properly when he is older. In the meantime, I'm confident he will talk to me if he is shown anything inappropriate, instead of worrying or wondering about it on his own.

FrogStarandRoses · 28/01/2014 13:16

cslewis You chose to send your DC to a school that delivers the national curriculum, yet you are complaining about the content.
Did you bother to find out what the national curriculum involved? Or did you make assumptions that it would always be tailored to suit your parenting choices?

If you don't like the content of the national curriculum, choose a school that isn't constrained by it.

DigestivesAndPhiladelphia · 28/01/2014 13:18

Sorry, DS knows a lot more than just it is something that only consenting adults do, but I thought that was an important point as it something that is important for children to understand - from the point of view of protecting them from abuse.

DanceParty · 28/01/2014 13:22

So none of you would have a problem with some random adult being the first to talk to your child about sex,

You didn't say in your original post that there had been a discussion on sex......just that the teacher had said Dali's work was about sex and death........that hardly constitutes "being the first to talk to your child about sex" !!

And if you haven't had 'the discussion' yet, I suggest you get a move on.

PiperRose · 28/01/2014 13:46

It is not her job to 'educate my child about sex"; that's MY job. Y'know, her parent? As and when I see fit. Not as and when SHE does.

Actually it is her job. Well, maybe not her exactly, but someone at school. It's on the National Curriculum.

PiperRose · 28/01/2014 13:54

Ok. Forgot this was a primary school. They are not required to teach sex education, but they are required to have a policy on whether they do so. If you are that worried
Maybe you should ask for a copy of the policy.

wouldbemedic · 28/01/2014 13:57

I'm with you, OP. With a username like CSLewis though, I'm guessing you have a strong Christian faith and that's reflected in the way you're raising your children. Me too. It's very sad that childhood can't be preserved in some areas. As a society, we can't moan about oversexualised children and the overuse of sexual imagery in the media, then decide it's fine to show 'classical' works of art to eight year olds because they will have already encountered sex. Just because some of them MAY have learnt about sex doesn't mean it's appropriate or desirable in educational terms. And whatever other posters are saying, this isn't something I'd want my little girl to be studying at the age of 8. Salvador Dali is great, but not when you're 8. It's a presumption on the part of the teacher, who I suspect has no kids and thinks she is rather cool.

wouldbemedic · 28/01/2014 13:58

Piper Rose - Are you really suggesting that Salvador Dali's work would be a good visual aid in sex ed lessons?????!!!

PleaseJustLeaveYourBrotherAlon · 28/01/2014 14:01

btw I have no problem with a teacher discussing sex in a biological sense in front of 8 year olds.. I do find it bizarre to focus on Dali's work as beinng "about sex and death". And I am genuinely wondering how many on this thread would use that description to someone else's 8 year old.

FrogStarandRoses · 28/01/2014 14:01

wouldbemedic Does your DC go to a school that follows the national curriculum?
Or have you selected a school that reflects your personal beliefs?