To say that Owen Jones's 'Agenda for Hope' is a bloody brilliant idea..?

[Scarletohello]

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/owen-joness-agenda-for-hope-we-want-a-fairer-society--and-heres-how-we-can-achieve-it-9086440.html

The link will be active in the following post but essentially it is the proposals devised by many groups to create a fairer society for all...

Please read!

bonvivant

public sector wasting taxes

that might have been true years ago but the public sector is on its arse. They can't even afford the essential stuff let alone having money to burn.

Boy those tory politicians have done a proper job on what people believe is happening in the public sector haven't they!?

I am not going to comment on Mr Jones.....

I work in the public sector - yes it's on it's arse because it has always been and is still inefficient.

I like some of the ideas but I'm honestly not sure about the high level of 'democratically elected' people on boards etc. he is so keen on.

In my limited experience people don't have the spare time or inclination to sit on boards in the public interest. And I may get flamed for this but I have also tended to find that those people who do, have either got a single issue axe to grind or just aren't sufficiently realistic or business savvy to be useful rather than obstructive.

My experience comes from charity boards where they struggle to fill the members and activists places. And often when they do it is with people who can be very obstructive. So the charity needs to save money due to lower fundraising. Activist Board member votes down every motion to cut spending, because it all seems important, they then vote against using the emergency funds. And then get angry when asked for their solution.

This is the public sector I recognise:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10122654/Public-sector-waste-has-cost-every-household-4500.html

The public sector is full of waste and bloated layers of middle management. It is unproductive, inefficient, and turgid, in no small part due to the union culture that pervades it. Osborne's cuts to the public sector, pitifully small though they are, have allowed the private sector a bit of room to thrive.

hahahaha I have to buy my own pens wish I got perks! Public Sector I work for (Local Authority) is broke and getting broker - the short term economy fixing is going to have long term social come back due to axed and dangerously understaffed and underfunded services - welcome to the new age

A good read - at least someone is addressing these issues.

It would be nice not to have hate and distrust for others at the top of the government agenda for a change. This has been a horrible, negative few years for the country driven purely by Tory ideology.

The TaxPayers Alliance is hardly a credible source, bonvivant.

Our cleaner gets laid off, gym trainer cancelled and I stop having my monthly pedicure if the rate goes up to 50p. So that's a few 'ordinary' people who taxing the 'rich' will effect.

We need more money in the economy, in people's pockets rather than in government coffers. Repay the deficit on the back of taxation gleaned from a growing economy rather than punitive measured based on populist policies.

also - yes LA's are stuffed full of 'managers' - we have new ones brought in specifically to wield the axe - at great expense. But most of us, who work hard and are motivated by the work we do supporting others - we aren't living the high life. I have done the same job with the same council for 18 years - I now do the job of 3 people, with no extra time and no extra pay (a 1% pay rise in 6 years) and I do it because I care about the people I am supporting

We will go through the whole 'change' process again this year - lord knows if we will even survive - it's horrible in the public sector now and no one stays there for fun

Westmorlandsausage the fecking stupid nhs buys crisps from nhs supplies at twice the cost they can be bought from Asda for and the wastage goes up and up in scale.

yes because ASDA don't have loss leaders.... or can buy in far bigger quantities than the NHS with mega discounts with big suppliers presumably the NHS then sells said crisps on?

bonvivant so what part of the public sector do you work in? Because I know in my part of it we don't have anything to spend let alone waste.

antimatter

^fantasy? bollocks?

what's wrong with creating this caroldecker?

A universal childcare system that would pay for itself as parents who are unable to work are able to do so, and which would take on the inequalities between richer and poorer children that begin from day one^

So the state takes over all children to create the next generation of compliant solcialist workers

How is all this paid for. Here's my manifesto:

free food for all as this is a basic right and the supermarkets make too much money and screw the farmers. Everyone has a medically approved diet provided for them to save billions on the NHS and ensures everyone is fit and able to work.

A universal childcare system that would pay for itself as parents who are unable to work are able to do so, and which would take on the inequalities between richer and poorer children that begin from day one

Also does this not suggest that poor parents are shit and any state funded childcare is better than being looked after by poor people?

BruthasTortoise it is bloody gruelling if you're there all day every day! And the thought racking up 40 grand in debt whilst earning nothing and gaining a degree that doesn't even guarantee a job at the end possibly may not be appealing to Mary's son...

caroldecker

I think universal childcare in my eyes doesn't mean free.
Including argument about food here is not relevant. It doesn't add any value to discussion about childcare.

no, Caroldecker, it suggests that kids in households where a decent wage is coming in do better than poorer ones

Please tell me if I'm being stupid but 40% (or thereabouts, taking into account personal allowance and proportion at 20%) of 100k is much, much, much more than 40% of 40k so aren't folk on 100k already paying their fair share? Given that they won't be getting any benefits etc?

That's how percentages work surely. (Then obviously they start to lose their personal allowance after 100k but most people don't know that). IMO it would just stop people doing that extra bit of work to take them over that bracket. No one is a winner hen are they?

For a relatively healthy youngish person sitting at a checkout is not gruelling. It's just not. And if Mary's son doesn't want to go to uni them that's entirely his choice but for this article to imply that there are no options for 19 year old other than the dole or low paid jobs is ridiculous. I think the little morality tale at the start of the article actually detracts from the message.

Mentality I imagine its pretty awful . Well I don't imagine, working on the tills is one of four jobs I had at uni its mind numbingly dull

I just think if you're going to pick a low paid job to highlight the terribleness of being working poor then a checkout job is not the worst of them - in fact generally speaking the big supermarket are actually quite good with their permanent members of staff. A zero hours contract at a call centre is considerably worse mentally and labouring to a builder is considerably worse physically. Most people I know who are genuinely working poor and in poverty don't work for big companies with hefty profit margins, they work for small businesses and shops that have tiny profit margins. I accept that is anecdotal though bit it is my experience.

Owen Jones is clearly too young to remember how utterly shite the railway system was before privatisation. The last thing it needs is to be brought back under state control.

He's articulate, and genuinely seems to care, but his agenda is not one of hope so much as Marxist naivety.

What if Mary's son can't afford the fees to go to Uni?

Marys son would qualify for bursarys to help with his fees and could take loans.