to tell my dc if we can't afford to do something?

[Abc000]

If my kids ask for something or to do something (whether it be going out for dinner, to the cinema or off on holiday), and its a no I will give them the honest reason.

Sometimes the honest reason is not today we don't have the funds available.

My mum heard me respond like this, and said (when the kids weren't around not in front of them) that I should lie and say anything other than allow the kids to worry about money. I don't think I should as I think it's realistic for the kids to realise there's only so much money in the kitty.

If I don't want to buy them x or don't want to go somewhere, I will say I don't. I don't use lack of money as an excuse when it's not the reason for doing something, but by the same token I don't think I shouldn't use it as the reason when it is.

AIBU?

I think so many families are in this boat. And because of the financial crisis which has altered a lot of people income in one way or another, it is easier these days to be open about it, especially with the DC.

A few decades ago I think there were many, many families who were poor, but honourable, and maybe it was just not done to divulge financial problems.

I think the mood of the country makes it much easier to be more open now. It is no disgrace to feel money is tight, when so many families are in the same position.

It's a tricky one. I've never had to say no to my DC because of a lack of money. Obviously I say no for whatever the reason is such as to many sweets are bad for their teeth kr whatever. This year DH and i are really trying not to waste as much money and be a bit more organised and have said to the DC no we are not having a takeaway/magazine/sweets today because we have are cutting back this month and that they have just had lots of treats for Christmas. Since we've said this they have been really anxious about money and asking if we had enough for food.

There is a difference to 'no we can't afford it' as a reply to everything to use as a get out clause to a genuine, 'I'm sorry not this time it's too expensive' and 'no I don't want to do this/buy that because....'
Our DC knew what I would say yes to, no to, and what would cost too much..and that there was a difference.
two of them are still rubbish with money, one very good

My mum was always honest with us as kids about not having enough money for certain things and I think that contributed to me being sensible with my money now

I understand your reasoning and also your mum's worry. If you more often than not can't afford things they may start to worry about not having enough money and internalize this as a belief - Not having enough. If this is the case I would probably not tell them every time I couldn't afford things.
. I worry about this as well regarding my DC's: I was brought up constantly told we didn't have enough money and couldn't afford things, never got new clothes etc, although we lived in a big house in affluent area. Me and my siblings all find it very hard to spend money on ourselves and have kind of internalized being poor. Hope this makes sense.
I agree with the poster above about knowing the value of things, saving up etc, but am trying not to give my DC's a feeling of lacking. It is a difficult thing to get right I think.

For us it has been about teaching children the value of money so that they are able to judge for themselves whether something is expensive for what it is or whether it's a good deal.

I don't often say we can't afford it because I don't want them to feel like we must be poor (we're not). Instead I'd say that if we did/bought that thing then we would have to sacrifice this other thing, or we'd have to save for x months.

My mum had a poor upbringing but mine was not at all, we had everything we wanted growing up and I think that because my Mum was so conscious of the lack of money as a child, she didn't want that for me. But I'm crap with money and am only just starting to be sensible about it in my 30's, so I don't think my mums idea was the best approach.

Yanbu. I don't tend to say I don't have enough money for X but that we need to buy food shopping, petrol and shoes (for example) this weekend so there's not enough left over for cinema. I suggest an alternative though - like " but we can watch a film with our duvets and get some sweets instead" I believe it's about making children realise money doesn't equal happiness.

I did once tell DS we couldn't afford something outright and he cried because he thought we were poor.

I say it to DS1 (4). I think its important, especially in this age of 'I must have everything my heart desires' that he learns that it just isn't possible. When he started asking why DH had to work I explained that he worked to make pennies so that I had money to buy food and clothes and shoes etc. If he wants something out of the ordinary when we're out (a book, magazine etc) he will normally say 'do we have enough pennies for this today?' rather than 'can I have...'. sometimes its a yes, sometimes not but he isn't upset by the concept.

I do make sure he knows that we always make sure we have enough pennies for food etc - the essentials.

he also has his own money box and gets token pocket money so he is learning about saving etc. understanding money is so important, too many kids today seem to actually believe that money grows on trees.

YANBU OP (or if you are, I am too!)

I have never (and will never) say the words 'We can't afford it' to my dc.

That was pretty much the constant answer I got as a child. We were very poor.

As an intelligent child, and a worrier by nature, I was stressed about money by the time I was about ten. I heared my mums 'can't afford it' and snippets on the news about times being tough and people losing their homes and was terribly worried for years about money.

It's not a nice worry to have as a child. I also identify with what a pp said about 'internalising' a feeling of being poor. It's very hard to explain - my life now is nothing like it was growing up. We are very comfortable, a household with two high earners. But I still sometimes have the same old feelings that I has as a child sometimes...expect nothing and you won't be disappointed.

I don't want my children to feel like that.

I also am a little incredulous at why people would be proud to be so 'open' with their dc....young dc anyway.

They are children, not your best friend.

I had no need growing up (as in, age 10ish) to know how much my dads wage was, how much the rent and the family allowance was etc. I did, because my mum prided herself on being 'open' and keeping us grounded.

I wish she'd kept a bit more to herself tbh.

there is a difference between making kids aware that it is not a bottomless pot and sitting them down to do the household accounts with you! and there is a difference between every so often saying it and saying it everytime they ask for something. all in moderation - like most things should be.

Interesting to hear the other side WeddingComingUp

The fortunate position I am in, is that it is only the frivolities that are declined.

As I said in op I would never use money as an excuse. If I think something is a waste of money I will say so, along the lines of "really you want that £50 Hollister jumper for the name rather than those 5 pairs of leggings in primark" rather than I won't spend £50 on that. Sometimes primark wins sometimes Hollister.

But if we don't have the spare cash for dinner out I will say we've spent £x on meals out this month I haven't got the money to keep spending on eating out, go and look in the fridge and choose dinner.

Reading this thread it has made me realise the importance of not one word answers - fortunately that's not something I'll ever be accused of!!!

Just be honest. I have friends whose parents always gave other reasons, and they grew up not trusting their own choices.

Honesty is always best. No reason for your kids to be insecure because you can't afford everything. Chances are you're better off than some, worse off than others. And that truth will serve them best.

I am sure the answer to this is to be cheerfully open with your children about the thinking that goes into your weekly budget before it becomes a question of "we can't afford this specific thing".

My mum was also very open, Wedding, but somehow she managed to make it sound like an entertaining and interesting part of our lives. Perhaps because she wasn't really that stressed about it: we weren't terribly badly off so her meticulous budgetting (and it certainly was meticulous!) could result in nice things like books or music rather than just survival.

Dc see their dad and I sit down every Saturday morning to plan the week's shopping. Keeping within budget is a big part of that as our finances are modest. But it's a perfectly pleasant occasion; we both enjoy working together for the family. And dc know that if we do plan a fair bit of boiled spuds and lentils into the budget it's so we manage fun things for the whole family, like drama lessons or a trip to grandma.

I tell DS all the time that I can't afford things he asks for, or that we have to save, even though I have the funds available. That I think it's a waste of money is enough reason.
I don't budget for survival either.

When he was younger, I'd often say something was too expensive, even if it was only £1 for example. People overhearing might have thought we were struggling, but who cares?

Having once said that we didn't have enough money for something the children wanted they now keep saying that I can have their Xmas / birthday money etc!
Am more cautious now and say that instead of spending money for items asked for, we are saving money towards a trip etc. I hate the thought of them worrying about money so young.

I agree with the wording in your last post much more than the simple "No, we can't afford it" type responses. As others have said, I don't want my children worrying about us not having enough money. To balance that, they all know full well they can't go on every foreign trip offered by the school.
I think that there's a difference between 'choosing' not to waste spend money on something that's not important to you - as in your example of a 'branded' item of clothing, and literally not having the wherewithal to pay for something you'd like to.
My dc have had their own pocket money since they were 7, to learn the idea of budgeting, and they understand the kind of amounts that we spend on Christmas and Birthday presents in our (extended) families, to the extent that all of them have asked relatives to give them money towards an expensive thing, instead of an individual present, when they've been asked what they want, in that they grasp some things are worth saving for, as some thing are more expensive than you can just put your hand in your pocket and hand over the cash.

I will sometimes say (if they are having a moan) that, by saving here, it means we can afford for you to {insert hobby or holiday or something they've enjoyed recently and want to do again} - I point out that other families might pay out for their child to have whatever it is I'm saying no to, but they haven't been on this camp or holiday or whatever. They get the idea that people have to make decision, without worrying too much about us not being able to afford things.

I am always honest with my children due to an conversation I had with my mother about something that happened when I was a kid.

I was 13, DSis was 11. Dad changed jobs and in his old job he was paid his basic wage a month in advance. It meant that we had to go 2 months on one months money. Mum and dad sat us down and explained that while mortgage, bills etc were covered there was no spare money for treats. Mum said that she was surprised at how we reacted, we never asked for a thing. We totally understood and when one of us (cant remember which of us it was) came home with a school trip letter we apologised and said we wouldnt go!

For years we had had "no you cant have ballet lessons, you'll only lose interest" or "You only fidget when we go to the cinema and dont watch the film" when the truth was that they couldnt afford it. Mum said that she realised then that she should have told us the truth rather than being defensive. I did hate the fact that she blamed me for not allowing me to do things, making out that I would get bored when I knew I wouldnt!

Jelly I said that once, big mistake. I got DD3 (aged 7 at the time) telling me I could have her piggy bank money.....oh the guilt!

Since H was made redundant I have made it clear that yes, we are worse off, no we dont have spare money, but that we are managing and that sometimes we can have treats but we need to save up. I explained that a comic each was fine, but if they had that then we couldnt have a day out. Sometimes they pick the comic, sometimes the day out. It helps them work out priorities.

Does anyone else try and involve their child in the choices?

e.g

3 trips to mcdonalds or one trip to the seaside at half term?

I can't afford swimming lessons & guitar this term, but if I pay for the guitar lesssons how would you like it if I took you swimming once a week?

No sweets for a month and we can go to the museum in town?

DS LOVES camping and tolerate a lot of scrimping and scraping throughout the year if we can only take that annual trip.

I think it is important for parents to teach their children about money management. When i was a child and i wanted something but wasnt allowed it because of money, i was so confused as i thought you could literally take money out of holes in the wall whenever you want. It was only when i wrote about 50 toys on my santas list that my mum explained how bank accounts worked, i.e you have to earn money first and then it goes into it. It sounds stupid, but children dont know what your salary is, they probably envision it to be hundreds of thousands unless you explain otherwise. If im still on a minimum wage job when my son is old enough to ask for toys when im in the supermarket, then i will definitely put it into perspective for him and say 'it takes me an hour and a half to make the money to pay for that. If you help me do chores for that long, then i will buy it on your behalf.'

We relate the money that the kids want to spend to hours that mama and papa would have to work to earn that money.

It is good for kids to be aware that buying x costs £x and that their parents have to work x hours to pay for that. Not that they should feel bad about wanting stuff, but they know the value of the the things they ask for.

I wish my parents had been more honest growing up. My mother liked what she liked and if she wanted it, she bought it, even if that meant using a credit card. It took me a long time as a young adult to learn the financial lessons that my parents should have taught me. I'll never allow my son to have to learn those lessons the hard way when I have the power to teach him from a young age.

I listened to a radio program some time ago that was the catalyst for changing my own habits. One of the things they were saying was that we should always try and pay with cash in front of children. If all they ever see is handing over a piece of plastic, they don't associate that with the cold hard cash coming out of a bank account. Some of the things that they discussed were involving children in budgeting and shopping (do we buy the home brand corn flakes and a block of chocolate or do we buy the name brand corn flakes and no chocolate?), helping to make decisions on what to spend money on (will we go to the movies today or save the money towards our holiday?), and try and get them to set financial targets (such as if you're going on holidays, set up a chart on the wall where you track the savings so they can actually see the money being saved rather than it going in to a bank account where it has no physical relevance for the child). It all made a lot of (simple common) sense, and I intend to use it as DS grows up.

You are setting a good example by openly living in your means.

I think DC do need to learn about budgeting.

But one angle to watch out for is how often, and in what tone, you say 'we can't afford that'. If it's the predominant excuse, it can inadvertently tip into a kind of pervasive and slightly joyless financial pessimism which can also cause problems in later life.

Question of balance I suppose.