aibu to feel slightly on edge when I come across women in the full black burka?

[caroleharolde]

I just always feel slightly threatened, I know the vast majority of Muslims are lovely nonviolent people but.just this sight always unnerve me. Be honest, who hadn't felt a bit uncomfortable when passing by a huddle of the burqa wearers? Not trying to be racist, I'd feel the same if it were Christians or Jews or any other religion wearing it.

Honest question; why black? Wouldn't a lighter colour be cooler?

I recently witnessed two very interesting things relating to this topic - in our local soft play centre. A woman said to her child/grandchild - "look at that silly woman.....she can't even see where she is going.....silly woman!" She was referring to a woman in a burka. I very nearly turned round and asked her why she was so hell bent on teaching her child/grandchild such an intolerant attitude. At that age, children are so open-minded and it really pissed me off that she was deliberately planting ridicule in the childs mind. So un-necessary and narrow minded.

An hour later, in the toilet at the same venue, a young child said to her Mum "Mummy, what's that thing?" - referring to the same woman in a burka who was in the toilet with her young son. The mother was obviously a bit embarassed by her child's comment and tried to sshhh him up. The lady in the burka responded beautifully. I could hear the smile in her voice as she said to the child "do you want to see behind the veil? It can be a bit mysterious, but nothing to be scared of". And she removed her veil and smiled a lovely big smile at this little boy. Then she chatted briefly to him and put the veil back.

It was a very simple, but lovely thing to see. Such a contrast to the first woman's attitude and a lovely way to teach children about diversity and acceptance.

Thank you Sads I can see the problem now. It centres around intention, I guess.

A balaclava or a helmet worn walking down the street is totally unnecessary, so you'd intentionally be obscuring your identity.

Whereas a burqa or niqab wearer has no such intention; for them it's a religious necessity (except when it's not - I do realise there are theological disagreements on the issue).

Phew, I can see the complications.

This is a very interesting debate and I feel that those who say Muslims aren't a race are being very naive. UK law has found that Jews and Sikhs can be races based on certain criteria. In past cases Muslims have failed to meet those criteria based on the factors in the case. Those who were the niqab or burqa tend to be from certain areas and there is certainly a case for making out a racial element when that factor is included.

Racism aside, the burqa and niqab are intrinsically linked to Islam and the fact that the OP and others are stereotyping and drawing negative inferences from what these women wear is legally discrimination on religious grounds under the Equality Act.

I second the posters who recognise that few of us really have a choice in what we wear. I'm going to a fancy restaurant tonight and am wearing a dress and heels. I won't be comfortable, I might be cold and I certainly won't be able to run for a bus. I'm bowing to social pressure too as I'd rather wear jeans and flats. How is that really any different?

Tiggy My husband has a balaclava and it scares the crap out of me. He wears it to keep warm when chopping wood.

I read a thread on here recently about the ban page 3 campaign, and there were similar points being made as there are here WRT the difference between choice, and pressure, and how do you define true informed choice.

WRT reading people's faces, why do we base a large part of our communication to this? Maybe we should be taking time to listen to people instead. It's very easy to slap a smile on your face and pretend to be happy when you feel like shit inside. A person's face isn't necessarily a true representation of them or their feelings.

It's an interesting discussion though, I'm glad it's able to go ahead.

A final point though, most prejudice stems from ignorance. We can't get rid of prejudice without tackling the ignorance. (Not using ignorance as an insult here btw, we're all ignorant about some things). Questions are good!

The

Well I don't give a monkeys either way but I had a personal experience where a young lady in the full burka (I could only see her eyes) was having a 100% meltdown strop go at me because I didn't know where another member of staff was.
It was lunchtime.
There was no-one in the Reception.
I had no idea if the person she was looking for was in the building, but everything I suggested wasn't good enough.

And it was really hard to have a conversation because all I could see was her eyes.
OK I appreciate this was one person (who was a really stroppy mare) but I found it difficult.
On the phone you don't see someones face but a phone conversation is different to face:face.

And I'm an adult with Equality and Diversity Training

To everyone who says they don't feel uncomfortable : would you feel comfortable in a public ladies toilet with someone dressed in a burka? How would you know it wasn't a man underneath?

To any teachers reading : would you feel comfortable if someone dressed in a burka picked up one of your little boy/girl from the class? When I pick up my friends little boy (on a regular basis) she has to ring the school beforehand and the TA has to ask if the little boy recognises me - what if I was wearing a burka ?

Why don't men wear burkas?

I find it incredibly sexist.

1950s Afghanistan, pre Taliban

JimmyChooChoo I've used communal toilets before, so have encountered men in a public toilet - didn't bother me at all.

How would you know it wasn't a man underneath

You wouldn't - and there was a case recently wasn't there where a man escaped in a burkha.

But their gait might give them away a bit- I've seen men in full female clothes and the walk gives them away.

if i was in a public toilet and someone was in there wearing a balaclava, i'd be scared. Irrelevant again, just thought i'd share!

But you knew that it was unisex.

You miss my point - if a man went into a LADIES toilet I'm very sure you wouldn't be comfortable would you?

Vampy- totally agree

WRT reading people's faces, why do we base a large part of our communication to this? It's partly innate. If you look at a little baby with a blank expression on your face you can make it cry.

How would you know it wasn't a man underneath

It could even be a leopard.

Over the years I've made a few friends at the school gates. It starts with a smile and casual conversation and sometimes grows into something more. I haven't found this possible with burqa wearers because I don't know if they are smiling back.

Amazed at how many of you say nobody/hardly anybody wears the burka in the uk! Assume you've never been to a big city.

It wouldn't bother me - there's cubicles I'm not peeing in front of anyone : man or woman.

I have been in the women's toilets when a man came in with his daughter - no-one passed out, he didn't faint in shock at seeing a row of cubicles, a row of sinks & a few women washing their hands. To be honest nobody was that bothered.

Quoteunquote - interesting photos - how could things have changed so much and so quickly, seems Iran used to be similar.

A have friends from Turkey and Malaysia and they are all worried as there seems to be a shift to encouraging a more hard line Islamic influence.

It makes me nervous when I encounter anyone with their face covered, whether it's by a burka, a motorcycle helmet or a mask. I have a completely irrational fear of not being able to see who I'm talking to; started off with my fear of clowns or anyone in fancy dress and has kind of escalated from there. I just hate not being able to see someone's face, and I really, really struggle to have a conversation if I can't see their face.

ConferencePear - how can you not tell from their eyes? Unless they've had a tonne of Botox their eyes will move when they smile. You just don't want to bother, do you? Lazy attitude.

I've been to several big cities, still haven't seen a Burkha - Niqab, yes and becoming more common. The way folk are going on you'd think Asda cafe is full of Burkha clad women (or men even).

i have never seen a woman wear a burka here (live in london) even where there large population of people from afghanistan

but i have seen and do see many woman (more than ever) wearing niqab's