to ask for help in expaining this to DD?

[herethereandeverywhere]

I've posted here for the traffic and because it doesn't quite fit in any other topic I can think of.

DD1 is 4.3. When she was delivered by Keillands forceps she was left permanently scarred on her face (a sort of circular gouge mark beside her eye). It started off quite small but is growing with her so proportionally will always be about the size of the pupil in her eye.

I hate that she has to bear that for no good reason and I hate her botched tortuous birth looking back at me every day, mostly because I'd protected her inside me for 9 months and in my first job, to deliver her safely I didn't protect her from that.

I have always known that one day she will ask me about it but I hadn't really prepared myself for what to say. Anyway, today was the day. As she looked in the mirror she said 'mummy look at that funny circle by my eye. Can you see it? It looks like someone has dug it out.' I froze and just hugged her and tried not to get upset in front of her.

I know that children suffer far worse than this and I know it's what's on the inside that counts etc. but this guts me and I just don't know how to approach it with DD. At the moment she's obviously not bothered by it but she might be as she gets older and more self-conscious. I wanted to sue the hospital so that when she was old enough I could say that the money was for what they did to her but DH is dead against and I'm not sure I have it in me to do that.

Any ideas? I think IANBU to ask but probably will be found U on other counts!

I doubt she'll be as affected emotionally as you fear, IF explained matter of factly and framed positively (aren't we lucky that they managed to get you out at all! You were so cosy inside there that you didn't want to come out!). However, I sense that delivering it in this way may be hard for you.

OP I haven't googled here but I think I am right in saying that Keillands/ high rotational forceps are banned in many countries because of the damage they inflict.

So actually, you could see suing as a means to effect legal change. That would be a positive goal that would not be about compensation.

Or, another thing: rather than suing, could you advocate for a change in the law? If I am right you could start a petition to push for the banning of Keillands forceps and the use of the plastic bag thingie you describe instead.

That would be positive and proactive.

I do not agree that women should be grateful when their bodies are torn and scarred. That line of thought is misogynistic and smacks of 'put up and shut up'. If you put up and shut up, nothing will ever change.

And don't be grateful for stuff just because it's free. A kick in the shins is free, too!

Sorry Kielland's

The procedure/ forceps used on OP are brutal an dangerous. They are NOT the same as forceps used to deliver babies but are used to turn the baby and are high risk. I read about one dreadful case which took place in EDinburgh Royal Informary where the high forceps where used, without the mother's informed consent and the baby was fatally injured by an inexperienced doctor carrying out the procedure.

OP I agree you should keep you explanation low key for your daughter AND investigate the legal route - if only to gain some measure of control and to get the hospital to look at this practise.

Unfortunately in cases of deep transverse arrest a CS isn't an easy answer and forceps are often used to bring the baby back up into the abdomen. In all assisted births the risk of damage both to mother and baby increases greatly so it's not as straightforward as to assume that if you'd had a section everything would have been OK.
I'm not sure you have grounds for suing since in experienced hands high and mid cavity forceps are still considered safer in some cases than a CS. Plus presumably you consented to both if you delivered on theatre.
I think counselling and a proper debrief would help you to rationalise your birth experience a bit better.

Counselling by a good professional counsellor won't be about making you accept one view or another: it will be about helping you to work through an event that was deeply traumatic for you. It doesn't mean you have to come out thinking the doctor was right or anything.

My dd has had extensive counselling re a different event/mismanagement b y professionals that left her traumatised. At no time was it suggested to her that what was done wasn't wrong; the counselling wasn't about turning black into white but about helping her to clarify things in her own mind and seeing how she needed to move forward.

It is important that you are able to see things as clearly as possible as two people are involved in your case: yourself and your dd.

If you do sue you will be confirming to yourself that the damage done to you was real and serious- as it clearly was.

But you will also be telling your dd that the damage done to her (the small scar) was also serious- serious enough to take up many, many months of family time and probably a lot of the family budget.

So what will happen the next time she has an injury and is left scarred, by falling off her bike or running into an open window, as children do? Isn't there a risk that she will feel the whole thing is far more serious than it is and be afraid that the whole exhausting process is going to start all over again?

If you do decide to sue, make it about your own trauma?

For one thing, you can't possibly hope to win a case that asks compensation for your dd for having the kind of minor mark that most children end up with sooner or later. But the trauma caused to you would seem far more worthy of compensation. Admit that the damage was done to you, not your dd.

I had counselling when experiencing infertility and it was very helpful (but only when I found the right counsellor). I liken it to treating a physical problem. If something causes you pain every day, you go to the GP and ask for help, don't you? Mental pain needs treating too. It is so sad that society makes us feel we should just put up with mental pain. The private counsellor was about £100 for two hours. It was way better value than many other things that I've spent that sum on, and he gave me some useful exercises to do too.

I am another person with a small mark from birth and was told about it matter-of-factly - it's never bothered me at all.

I also think that you really need to frame her arrival as a wonderful and special time for you and fir your family. Focus on your first cuddle, etc. you can talk about the horrid stuff to a counselor and to her (perhaps) when she's an adult. Much older.

I always see my c section scar lovingly as it represents a very special day when my eldest son arrived. Can you do the same with your DD. you could give it a name 'beauty spot' or 'special birth mark'

You need to be able to separate out the two things. One, your awful, horrific experience of having your DD delivered from you. Two, your DD's birth injury.

I have to explain why my DD1 finds it hard to learn, frequently, to both her and her sisters. I simply say 'DD1 was born with a poorly brain, so some things are much harder for her to learn, but she's amazing at x, y, z'.

For your DD, I would say 'When you were born you got stuck sideways. You needed help to get out, and the tool the doctor used left a mark on your face.'

Or, simply, 'That happened when you were being born.'

If your DD was traumatised by her own birth, she's unlikely to remember it. So any trauma she feels as a result of the scar will be a reflection of how you feel.

If it truly is about the tiny scar on your DD you have no grounds to sue and would be highly unreasonable to do so. DS3 is busy collecting scars. He split his nostril when he fell over on a path, the most recent was a scar to his head when he tripped into the corner of a wall. The nose scar will go down well as by coincidence me and my dad have identical scars from other incidents :)

If you feel the delivery is a reason to sue you need to start by looking at it factually and putting emotions aside. You need to get the medical facts of the case and not he said she said the consultant does this.

fifi My OP asks for assistance explaining the scar to DD, not analysing my chance of successful litigation, hence the facts are presented as they would be in an internet chat room rather than a claim form. I have my medical notes and I have an initial assessment of what needs to be proven to win the case. I also know that I have until she is 18 to make the claim. But thank you for your 'kind' words.

My OP was an attempt to get assistance in assuring I explain it the best way I can to DD without my emotions getting in the way. I've had some great advice for which I'm grateful. I would never let her be upset or bear the responsibility as I have - hence my request for help.

I've also had some friendly advice about how the mental damage to me needs dealing with and I appreciate that too.

At present I really struggle to 'frame her arrival as wonderful and special' due to the horrendous labour/traumatic birth/slow, painful and complicated recovery for me. I was in unrelenting dreadful pain for the first month and DD was readmitted for poor feeding and continued to lose weight over the 15% threshold. So much so there wasn't a day in the first fortnight that we weren't driving around South London attending Drs/midwives/hospitals. That first fortnight was not even vaguely nice. The birth robbed me and DD of much more than the childbirth experience itself. I felt physical pain but emotionally numb.

I am going to look into counselling. Cost is not an issue but I need to find the right person who will provide the right outcome for me.

Thanks to everyone for their comments. DD hasn't mentioned it since but when she does I'm prepared to be very matter of fact about it.

Delivery aside for a moment...

I get it OP - the scar I mean...

My son fell over and smacked his chin. Now has a small scar like you see on many people.

I was sad for him at first... I wanted to take it away completely so he was 'perfect' again...

Now it's part of him, it's a great story and it adds character. I got over it.

But then I wasn't traumatised by how he got it. You have been utterly traumatised and that scar is a tiny part of it, a reminder...

It's not a criticism OP, at all and I don't use the word traumatised lightly either... The situation of your child's birth was truly horrific.

Many women like you are traumatised by their deliveries and it makes me so angry that the NHS does not acknowledge it. EVERY woman should be debriefed in my opinion because how a woman feels about her birth experience can have NO relation to the type of delivery she had (evidenced by those on the thread who report feeling satisfied by their forcep deliveries).

When looking for a counsellor OP look for which is specialist in PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder). You will probably find birth trauma in the many of counsellor's blurbs who specialism in PTSD... It's very common.

The legal process is very tough though - don't rule it out but have decent emotional support in place first otherwise the legal process could be very anxiety provoking and even cause you to have flashbacks (or more of them).

I hear you OP. I don't think you are mad - crumbs I am sad to say you are not even unusual.

Take Care

I had a forceps birth with ds1 and a bad third degree tear. Ds had severe bruising, including a huge lump behind his ear which only came up about a week or more after the birth. He now has all sorts of learning problems and I totally blame his birth. There were a whole host of factors which contributed to his violent birth, mostly due to a negligent midwife, and then a consultant who could not use forceps properly.

I also spent a long time feeling traumatised, and when I became pregnant a second time (when he was well past 2), I obsessed about the labour and delivery constantly. I had a c-section due to having twins, thankfully.

I did not have proper counselling but did talk it through with my NCT leader. She was really helpful in showing me how it wasn't my fault, and where the midwife went wrong and how different the outcome could have been had I had a better midwife. I did write to the hospital, but it never went anywhere (I never got a reply and had PND so wasn't up to a lot of chasing).

I think if you have the money and the motivation then you should sue. Consultants tend to be right up their own bums (BIL is one!) and need a kick up the backside sometimes.