To tell my mum to piss off and keep her nose out?

[BlatantReverse]

I'm struggling to know how to deal with a family situation and would like some opinions. So as not to mislead, I'm not going to do a reverse AIBU sneakily, but will write out the issue from the other perspective and would really appreciate feedback as if replying to them.

My daughter is 6yo and very badly behaved. I suffer with depression and anxiety, I don't sleep and have been signed off work for over a year. My house is tiny and my landlord won't do any repairs so it's falling apart. My wife works and we both struggle to keep the place clean and tidy. Recently I've been asking my parents for help with my daughter's behaviour a lot - she spits, punches and bites when she doesn't get her own way, I've tried taking things away as punishment, I've tried smacking her but nothing works. I usually call my parents for help 2/3 times a week when DD won't go to bed, assaults my wife and winds me up to the point I end up losing my temper and screaming at her.

After a particularly bad night last night I called my mum as DD wouldn't go to bed, she nipped, punched and bit my wife and spat in my face. No one else sees her behave like this, she's sweetness and fucking light with everyone else. I admit I was shouting a lot, but my mum threatened to call the police if I didn't stop. She doesn't know what a life I've got with DD, I cry with the worry of the affect her behaviour is having on my wife, who's lost 5 stones in the last 6 months. My mum and sister have told me I have to contact the health visitor or GP to ask for help with what they call our 'family situation' but why can't they see it's DD's fault, instead of blaming me and my wife? I feel like just fucking off somewhere and leaving them all to it. The neighbours were banging on the wall last night, they can fuck off too.

It is nobody's fault. There are multiple issues here. Lease get help. Gp could refer to ss. Good luck - WHOEVER you are in this.

You need help- and not from your judgemental old bag of a mother.

Maybe try and get a CAMHS (child mental health services) referral from your GP.

Ack - I'm trying, but I just cba to decipher who is who and what is going on.

OP - your brother is struggling with his 6 yr old daughter, and screams at her a lot...which you think is out of order. Is that right?
Please just post from your own perspective will you? It will make it so much easier to understand. x

I can't work out who you are but anyway. You have to access the help that is out there via your hv or the GP or SS. This won't just disappear by itself, it won't just get better and she's a six year old child who needs help as do you all.

If the child is behaving properly at school but not at home, that would suggest problems at home. Maybe a parenting course would work - these poor parents need to learn specific strategies to deal with this child. Shouting and smacking clearly aren't working and are probably making the situation worse.
I wouldn't involve social services ( they probably wouldn't help anyway) but see what help is available locally. Maybe the school can help with suggestions. Maybe you ( aunt) and grandma could remove the child from the situation a few days a week and help lay down boundaries. What about seeking a referral to CAMHS, or some family therapy? As aunt, you are in a difficult position, as presumabaly you can only suggest. Does your brother have a history of temper/depression?

this sounds difficult but OP as the dad in this scenarios sister your post from his point of view is your interpretation of it isn't it.

he may well say it differently.

the child may have a developmental disorder, that may well be exacerbated by the way her dad is or isn't coping/dealing with it. but ultimately if he is calling his mum for support then he needs help.

I would advise him to speak to her school maybe see the SENCO or approach their GP.

Also the behaving at school but not at home is not at all uncommon in the case of there being a developmental disorder.
looking after a child with these issues is hard work, I imagine doing it with clinical depression is even harder.

The parents need to be encouraged to seek help via their school nurse or HV. I would come from the angle that their daughter is particularly difficult to manage so they should see school nurse or GP. It is probably the way they are managing the behaviour but the school nurse will see through that and may refer them on to CAMHS if there is a more complex problem. `This little girl's development is being affected and if persuasion doesn't work you or your Mum may need to speak to social services but that will alienate the parents so I would validate their concerns first and agree there may be something wrong with their daughter and the GP or school nurse is the first port of call.

Thanks for those who've been helpful, I'm sorry if it's a bit confusing, I just wanted to see if other people had the same reaction as me to the whole thing. I'm going to call the HV tomorrow and ask her to visit.

As briefly as I can -

My brother is suffering from depression, he unfortunately was a manipulative manchild well before that happened. He and his wife are (IMO) very immature and are expecting their 6yo DD to behave according to adult expectations. Normal childish behaviour results in all of her toys being taken away, screaming matches, smacking, very extreme anger from her father. They often call my parents screaming that they'd 'better come and get her' after a small episode of bad behaviour has escalated. My parents bend over backwards for them - I've only found out just how bad the situation is today. My brother has a history of inventing things if he doesn't like what actually happened - he's threatened to call the rest of my mum's family with a pack of lies if she calls SS.

I'm very worried my DN is going to end up harmed by her parents' complete lack of parenting skills. The house is filthy, she smells of smoke (sometimes tobacco, sometimes cannabis) all the time, my mum took her to the dentist after she'd complained of toothache for a week and discovered she'd not been before and needed 5 fillings. I know from my work that often no action is taken by SS unless serious physical/sexual abuse is taking place, and I'm afraid that nothing will be done.

After finding out all of this today I spoke to my brother. I was deliberately completely non-judgemental, didn't apportion blame, was very careful choosing my words, but he still went ballistic and now won't speak to me at all. The OP was taken from things he's said. I don't see a lot of him because of my own circumstances but we used to be close. My mum told me in the hope he'd talk to me, as he won't speak to her now either. My mum is as far from interfering as you could get BTW, my brother constantly demands her help.

PS I understand exactly who you are and I think it is unfair of your brother to involve your Mum then tell her to mind her own business in the next breath. He sounds very stressed.

I'm going to address you as if you're "mum", since I'm guessing you're not the 6 year old.

And your own child needs to grow up. He's wanting you to blame his 6yo for her behavioural difficulties and is unwilling, or unable to model "good" behaviour himself, judging by the ranting and raving you describe.

He's not understanding that your grand-daughter's behaviour is not down to just plain naughtiness, but that she's trying to tell him something and he's not listening. I'm suspecting that she's not feeling particularly safe and happy. You were right to push them to seek outside help.

I will say, if you suspect that your DS is harming your GD in any way, please do report it.

Thanks trudy for suggesting the school nurse, I hadn't thought of that, I've tried the approach of agreeing there's something wrong with DN (although I really doubt it) but if I can get him to engage with me again I'll try to persuade him down that route.

Get him to see the doctor about a referral for his dd. She might need it or not but from there they might suggest a parenting course which might make him think twice about his behaviour and learn other ways to discipline and cope.

Having a parent with depression/anxiety is difficult for a child. I would suggest a parenting course or book (Try Playful Parenting) or even better family therapy if you can access this.
Other posters advice to rule out physical /developmental problems is sensible. You could also engage with the school about her behaviour as they may have insights for you or suggestions.
Good luck

Now seen your last post. I would write to him if I was your Mum saying she is worried about him and trying to open up communication. If you don't hear anything soon I would write to SS saying that your niece is experiencing emotional trauma and you are concerned about the effect on her development. Her needs need to take priority

The 6yos behaviour sounds really bad. It isn't her fault, she's just a little child but I would encourage the parents to get some help with this. Maybe ask gp for referral to child psychologist or whatever they consider appropriate. HV would not deal with this in my area - they are for under fives.

If the house situation is a nightmare, are you able to move?

Is it the child's granny who is being told to piss off? I think maybe the 6yo plays up at night because she wants the parents to call granny for a visit. May be better to get granny to visit at tea time, tell child granny is tired and going to bed. When child plays up that night, don't call granny.

I also don't understand why 2 adults are unable to defend themselves from a 6yos violence. Her hand could be caught before the punch lands.

Also try carrot rather than stick. Think of something she really wants, make her earn it by getting ticks or stickers on a sheet for good behaviour over the course of a week or similar.

OK, should have read on - you're the sister.

The only person my heart is truly breaking for in that little family is the 6yo. Sod the threats. Some sort of intervention is needed.

contact her school... tell them the whole story what you've said and tell them you're really worried.

Having read your later posts I would say first of all PLEASE dont start to agree yes there is something wrong with the child in case they take that as reason to escalate their treatment of her!

what you need to do is tell social services everything you know. Hopefully they will be able to help the family.

This is not going to be a welcomed comment but needs to be said.
This little girl is being subjected to emotional abuse and her behaviour is an acting out of the pain and confusion she is feeling.
Through her eyes her father is an angry man who due to his depression is unable to connect with her needs or understand her stress. He shouts at her mother,grandmother and aunt. Her toys are removed and threats to her made.
This child is being made the scapegoat for the family situation. He wants something to be done about her rather than looking at his own mental state. As he cant do this someone in the family needs to act to protect this little girl.
I think that social services should carry out a full assessment to safeguard the child and to offer family support.
Feel very sorry for the girl.

I will only be posting as myself from now on, sorry for the confusion. I am the 6yo's aunt, the 'OP' is my brother. I agree intervention is necessary, I just don't know the best way to go when my brother won't accept there's any kind of problem except with his DD, and even then won't seek help. He's been sending me abusive texts for the last 3 hours because I dared suggest the three of them should visit the GP together and describe their home life, to see if he can offer any help.

jaffacake, quite the contrary! your comments are very welcome as they pretty much describe my thinking on the situation. I wondered if I was overreacting.

Please involve social services.

Your niece is being abused.

The fact she is well behaved at school and has no problem there indicates that her behaviour is a response to something horrible going on at home.

If your brother isn't listening to you or anyone else - and he isn't as you say - then you have absolutely no option but to involve social services.

Poor little girl :(

I agree with jaffacake. I think a call to the NSPCC or social services would be a good idea. You would not be over reacting, particularly if he is, or they are self medicating with drugs and alcohol.