To get angry at people who..

[Joysmum]

...allow their bog standard, nothing out of the ordinary, cat/dog/whatever to have babies.

With so many animals who can't find a good home wtf are people doing breeding more of them?

I personally believe many issues can be solved if it were mandatory to have a license for breeding yet more animals.

BTW forgot to mention, cat is already neutered, dog will be as early as possible.

Whilst COUNTLESS dogs and cats die needlessly every day I do not believe that any breeder is a good breeder.

The pets dying in shelters are not from reputable registered breeders. They are from puppy farmers and backyard breeders. Banning the breeding of registered health tested pedigree dogs means that all that will be left are backyard breeders and untested cross breed dogs.

Exactly Midnite. Banning all breeders drives the bad ones underground and takes the good influence of the good ones out of the pool. And like you say, the pets in shelters are NOT from reputable registered breeders so why punish them?

and what if I buy a puppy from a breeder but I don't neuter or spay it? I breed it with the dog next door and i've just created another six puppies.

where

To be honest if you were allergic to peanuts would you put pistachios on the shopping list?

Erm yes you would, because peanuts are legumes and not nuts. Pistachios are tree nuts. They are completely different species of plant. Someone who is allergic to peanuts is often completely fine with tree nuts.

Re poodle crossbreeds, I am aware of the issues, I was just pointing out that there was an actual purpose to the breeds.

TooOld I only know about cat breeders but IME the responsible breeders have the kittens neutered or spayed before they are rehomed.

I didn't know that tbh.

fiverabbits assuming all your rabbits are males? I know spaying is really risky for female small animals eg rabbits and guinea pigs. Giving birth is also very risky for guinea pigs because they have such long pregnancies and the babies are relatively large when born, although iirc that's not the case with rabbits.

Re poodle crossbreeds, I am aware of the issues, I was just pointing out that there was an actual purpose to the breeds.

The man who initially bred the first 'labradoodles' regrets it. His intention was to create a non-shedding guide dog, but the experiment was a failure and the guide dogs abandoned it.

This is something that makes me very angry,why do people do all this indiscriminate breeding and when they cannot sell these poor animals they offer them on sites free to good home. Don,t they know that a lot of these poor souls end up as bait dogs and suffer horrendously. I thin k all puppy farms sould be closed down immediately and only licensensed breeders should be allowed to breed just so many a year. All dogs should be microchipped and there should be a license fee. This should also apply to cats as well.

Adopting pets from shelters can be very very difficult -- i understand they need to make sure that animals go to good homes, but they can get soooo discriminative.

Absolutely. Our next dog will be another working gun dog. It wil be kennel club trained, trained to the gun and lead the happy, busy and fulfilling life of Riley that my boy currently enjoys.

This is not good enough for the shelter in Norfolk that I looked at. They had a beautiful two year old lab bitch that would have had a lovely home with us. Unfortunately they specified that their dogs were not to go to working homes.

There are other shelters. Many of them. Plenty are breed specific.

ilove I'm sure you would have given that good a lovely home but some working dogs are treated like livestock and when they are no longer fit to work they are off loaded or put down. To be fair to the rescue how could they tell that wasn't the kind of working home you are?

Although it's not going to happen I think all dogs should be chipped and have a log book, like a car, and change of ownership registered. But if current dog laws are ignored these would be too.

Any ethical breeder commits to being responsible for any dog they breed for it's whole life, if a breeder doesn't then don't get a puppy from them.

Lots and lots of people are turned down by rescues and usually for good reason but people dismiss them as 'difficult' and go buy a puppg who ends up on gumtree 9 months later.

A puppg? New crossbreed? I meant puppy

A quick scan of Pets4Homes brings up

cockapoo
maltese x shitzu
puggles
cocker x bichon
cavalier x bichon
schnauzer x bichon
tibetan terrier x american cocker (!)
bedlington x poodle
labradoodles
dalmatian x poodle
poodle x schnauzer
lab x springer
bedlington x whippet
lhasa apso x shitzu
bichon x jack russell
lab x presa canario
rottie x masriff x DDB
GSD x akita
maltese x yorkie
french bulldog x staff
jack russell x pug
poodle x shitzu
lab x husky
chihuahua x yorkie
pyrenean mountan x newfoundland
gsd x rottie
french bulldog x pug
pug x scottie
gsd x malamute
jack russell x dachsund
lhasa apso x bichon
shitzu x bichon
husky x pomeranian (!)
newfoundland x standard poodle
jack russell x schnauzer
husky x boxer
shitzu x yorkie
poodle x bichon
chihuahua x cairn
jack russell x poodle
cavalier x shitzu
jack russell x dachsund x shitzu x bichon (okaaay..)
griffon x chihuahua
cavalier x pug
labradoodle x corgi x pomeranian
westie x poodle
husky x weimeraner
cavalier x bichon x maltese
bassett x pug
chihuahua x staff
shtzu x pappillon
cavalier x yorkie
shar-pei x staff
chinese crested x chihuahua
pom x yorkie x shitzu
jack russel x beagle
boston terrier x pug

Oh, there's more, loads more,I only stopped because I need to go to bed soon.

most of the pedigrees on there are vogue-ish breeds - bulldogs english / american / french (sooo many French Bulldogs!) chihuahuas, pugs, shar-peis.

Ugh.

There isnt actually anything wrong with buying a pedigree puppy if you want one and can look after it

Obviously from a proper reputable breeder! Id never buy a dog that wasnt kc registered either at least then the bitch has some sort of protection from over breeding

God that list is depressing

I completely disagree saint. It has little to do with being able to 'look after' and everything to do with the fact that for every pedigree pup being bought, the same pedigree is being pts at some shelter in the country through no fault of its own.

My DM rescued a bichon who had been on a puppy farm and was bred from over and over again.

Nearly two years on she still bears the mental scars and probably always will. Although she has been happier since DM took in an excitable Yorkie that was going to be sent to a shelter.

I don't know what the answer is but licensing is a start. I do like the idea of the breeder being second contact on the chip for life.

It has little to do with being able to 'look after' and everything to do with the fact that for every pedigree pup being bought, the same pedigree is being pts at some shelter in the country through no fault of its own.

They are not. Registered pedigree dogs are very rarely put down at shelters.

Can we clarify something here for the purposes of the discussion - When referring to dogs as being "pedigree" this refers to being registered with the controlling body. For the UK, that means they have a Kennel Club pedigree certificate. Without a certified pedigree from that organisation, they are not a pedigree dog. Some people will use the term 'purebred' to refer to dogs that are bred from recognised breeds but do not have a pedigree. These dogs are not from Kennel Club recognised breeders, they are backyard breeders or puppy farms.

How can you or I know that the border collie or japanese chin or GS being pts tomorrow isn't the product of a KC registered parent being bought as a pup and not neutered? Not from a puppy farm, not from a byb, bought from a 'reputable' KC approved breeder. Not 'done'; bred; offspring on gumtree/in rescue.

As far as I know from experience, registering with the KC is easy as.

There needs to be proper licensed breeders and more control over who is breeding what and how often.

All dogs should be chipped before they're sold or rehomed. As someone said up thread log book for every dog is a very good idea.

There also needs to be greater control over the neutering of all pets to prevent the sort of situation I came across in the park this week: man has male chihuahua x pomeranian and female chihuahua half the size of the male. When the male was about eighteen months old and the female around 9 months old and in her first season, unbeknown to the man, the dogs mated and the bitch ended up giving birth to 3 pups, only one of which, the smallest of the litter, survived. No doubt that probably, very unhealthy puppy, was sold on as a chihuahua/pom cross for a nice sum. It was clear though that the man loved his dogs and seemed almost taken by surprised as to how these two animal managed to procreate at such a young age.

I think a lot of the problem lies with peoples ignorance about the best ways to go about acquiring a dog. More than once I've been told by people that they were met at such places as a railway station by the breeder with the dog they were buying. It never seems to occur to them that if they were dealing with a reputable breeder they wouldn't just be able to reply to an advertisement and go and pick up their puppy like they would if buying a loaf of bread.

Just talking to people in the park, I've heard so many horror stories of sick puppies and puppies that haven't survived. I find it all so sad.

All of our pets are strays or waifs that have been taken in when they literally had nowhere else to go.

I wish people had more respect for animals they have agreed to look after...before they get bored and dump them.

As for the OP this applies to pedigree pets too.

We bought our two Burmese from a registered and reputable breeder in Australia. We specifically wanted this breed because of their personality type (almost dog-like, very affectionate). They were neutered before we got them, and have come to France with us (ooh that wasn't cheap, but there was never any question that they'd come over when we had a decent sized apartment). They are, of course, stricltly inside cats only - caution has largely been bred out of Burmese, they're very trusting and friendly.
Love our girls so much.