To be pissed off about the so called healthy eating advice we've been given for years ?

[Scarletohello]

I did the Atkins diet about 8 years ago when it was considered faddy and dangerous. Low fat was the healthy way to go. I got so much hostility about it, almost like I was a climate change denier. To my surprise,I lost 2 stone easily and quickly. Unfortunately I got scared by all the health warnings about how bad it was for you so eventually went back to a ' normal' diet. And put it all on again. Am currently watching the C4 doc about how sugar is bad for you. Of course it bloody is !!

Why can't the authorities wake up and realise its not fat that makes you fat? It's sugar and fast acting carbs.

It's time we had a major overhaul in our thinking about what really makes us fat...

The NHS shouldn't be recommending diet coke for children, other than as an occassional treat. My son is facing the possibilty of having teeth removed, due to an addiction to it (his responsibility, not mine as he is an adult). I have heard being addicted to coke is quite common.

That's it fatlazy. Ds came home yesterday telling me that diet coke was fine, was good for him, because the leaflet told him so - is that really what they're aiming for?

Louiseaderyn sugar does not form a sticky lining to your arteries. It gets digested.

Margerine is close to plastic, is it? Which plastic? Did they bother to even specify?

But that is irrelevant. At molecular and atomic levels, small difference in structure make completely different compounds. Water is H20, oxygen is O2, carbon monoxide is CO, Carbon dioxide is CO2.

All very different compounds, but with only a couple of atoms in the difference.

As always, I think you can turn to Neil Tennant for advice.

In this case, not

"We're S-H-O-P-P-I-N-G
We're shopping"

but his 1980 work "The Dairy Book of Home Management" General Editor: Neil Tennant.

"Slimmers: A balanced diet is still necessary but as we normally eat many foods to excess, we can safely cut down without damaging our health. Try not to rule out foods with a high nutritional value, such as milk, cheese, meat, fish, eggs, fruit and vegetables, although the amount you eat of each may need to be reduced. Cut down on sugary foods such as cakes, sweets and biscuits, which contribute very little to the diet. Fatty foods and fried foods are also high in calories, as is alcohol, and consumption of these should be watched and strictly limited".

Bonus tip:

"Invalids: Colourful edible garnishes can play a significant part in invalid cookery".

Interestingly also:

"Diabetics: The treatment of all diabetics, even those who require insulin, will necessitate some degree of dietary restriction. The diabetic's intake of carbohydrate foods must be controlled. Once the basic principles of the carbohydrate exchange system are understood, the diabetic's meals can easily fit in with those prepared for the rest of the family."

(This book is obviously sponsored by the dairy industry, but on the plus side there is a recipe for basic cream mould and baked egg custard if anybody is interested).

Jessie, I phrased that a bit wrong. The sugar doesn't make a lining, but apparently damages the artery walls, which then makes the fat stick and clogs the arteries. That came from the cardiac rehab unit that my dad attends, so would hope that their info is accurate!

Must admit I can't remember the specifics about which plastic. Margerine tastes like plastic, which is a good enough reason to avoid it imo
Butter is much nicer!

Okay- that makes sense. I have been googling, and that's the closest I could find.

But really, really don't worry about plastic and margarine. If you don't like the taste, don't eat it, but most everyday stuff you use everyday is made of the same elements over and over again, in different ratios.

It's nothing like cooking, where slight changes in a recipe result in something that tastes much the same.

Low carb is certainly working for me.

I've not eaten bread,pasta or rice for three and half weeks and seen dramatic difference.

Cutting out sugar was tough, I gave in on Friday to scoff one Terry's chocolate orange segment. After about 10 mins I went on a complete sugar binge and scoffed six then started on a packet of chocolate biccys.

People don't realise how addictive it is. Unfortunately bread and pasta is full of it.

If I can just be pedantic for a moment: Robert Atkins was 72 when he died, not in his 80s. I am not saying anything about what he died of, just that he was 72 not in his 80s as has been stated twice on this thread.

My problem with low carbing is the age-old question of sustainability and willpower.

I don't see how it is easier to forego potatoes, for example, than it is to forego butter on a low fat diet.

Both involve making an effort to always resist a food that is "naughty" for years if not for life.

For me (and I don't think I'm the only one) that is just not realistic.

I don't forego potatoes. I just keep them as a treat - a couple of roasties on a Sunday or a small portion of potato salad like I had with my lunch today. I have eaten low GI/low carb for two years now and most people would have no idea because I eat so many things. I just avoid big portions of carbs and eat things like rice and potato occasionally, accompanied by plenty of protein.

I find low carbing to be the easiest way of eating to sustain, once you quell the sugar demon it feels so easy.

And of course you can have potatoes, but once a week rather than every day. The cruel fact is that unless you're naturally slim 9 times out of 10 you have to say 'no' to eating lots of delicious things if you want to sustain a weight you're happy with.

I find it very easy too. Much easier than any other diet. Although I wouldn't even call it a diet these days.

I have no desire for potatoes however, that's for sure.

Interesting debate, as always...

However, one question. Several posters have stated that 'fat clogs up your arteries/sticks to your arteries' - can any of you explain how that happens? To the best of my (admittedly limited) knowledge, fat does not enter the blood stream, and it's not able to permeate the artery walls. How, then, does it 'clog the arteries'?

And if, in fact, fat does not 'clog up your arteries'... then what's the problem with it?

Are triglycerides not a fat in the blood?

tea, from what my dad's doctor said at cardiac rehab, fat shouldn't clog up the arteries, it should pass through. But if the arteries have been damaged (by eating too much sugar), then the fat sticks and causes the arteries to clog.

Ahhh, ok, triglycerides are blood lipids, that's true. But... they usually increase on a diet high in refined carbohydrate and reduce when carb content is cut. And arterial damage is usually caused by high levels of sugar (and other nasties), not fat (like Louise says)...am just thinking aloud really!

Fwiw, I am fully supportive of a low-carb (NOT no-carb, not 'cutting out a food group' ) WOE but so many people state the 'fat is bad because it clogs up your arteries' thing that I was starting to think, what have I missed here...

The thing about carbs is that they are really calorific, so it is very, very easy to eat too much of them. This doesn't make them bad at all, it just makes them energy-rich. I am always amazed at how many calories are in bread, for instance!

The key to losing weight is to make sure you eat fewer calories than you burn. It's that simple. Most people underestimate how much they've eaten when they have bread, pasta, potatoes etc. and end up gaining weight. Simply weighing your food means that you don't fall into that trap.

The key to being healthy is more complicated - eating a balanced diet, of which regulated portions of carbs, and lots of fresh fruit and veg form important parts.

Struggling for many people it is NOT as simple as that. I really get quite pissed off with the assumption that those of us who fail to lose weight by calorie counting alone are too thick to work out that portion control matters and that weighing stuff is necessary.

For plenty of us calorie counting alone does not work. No matter how carefully I weigh track and monitor my intake it does not work. I'm almost certainly insulin resistant but that's reckoned to be pretty common in reality

Yes struggling. I would be surprised if somebody gained weight by consuming a balanced diet including carbs with the recommended amount of vegetables, fruit and protein.

I think the problem is that carbs are easy to consume (bread, pasta), generally aren't balanced by enough fruit and veg and people's calorie consumption is sugar heavy when on a day to day basis refined sugar is completely unnecessary. Also, protein is often consumed as processed meat and ready meals tend to be designed to appeal to our salt/fat/sugar seeking tastebuds, not to benefit our health.

Therefore, most people, even if they eat the recommended number of calories aren't eating a healthy diet.

None of this information is new.

Having said that, losing weight is not at all easy, and if a particular diet works for some people without being extreme, that is definitely a good thing.

Calorie counting alone really won't work for lots of people. You could eat your daily calorie allowance in Mars Bars and it would be disastrous. Yet diets that work on calorie restriction alone would allow that.

We are all different. Some people put on weight eating 1500 calories a day, and others can eat 2500 and stay slim, even doing the same amount of exercise. My skinny brother lives on fried food and alcohol and drives everywhere and you can see his ribs.

Personally I'm a believer in everything in moderation. Just normal food with fat, carbs etc, but watching your portion size. If i have a takeaway, not eating loads and loads but a sensible small portion, sensible portions of potatoes and pasta etc. Weighing things out and counting calories Low carbing/low fat just wouldn't be enjoyable for me. I am and always have been a healthy weight.

Everyone is different though, I think it's just a case of finding out what works for your body. I really don't think there is a magic 'right' secret that would make everyone lose weight.

"aren't eating a healthy diet."

Or aren't eating the recommended healthy diet. I don't think the odd piece of cake does you any harm. It's just difficult to only eat the odd piece of cake if it is readily available.

I eat loads and loads of pasta and rice. I love it.
I am a vegetarian and very slim.
I walk at least 3 miles every day and am always on the go.
If you get off your arse you can eat whatever you want.
The unhealthiest thing of all is to constantly obsess about food.

People probably won't gain weight eating a balanced, everything in moderation diet, barring health conditions.

But most of the people on these diets/ WOE are already at the point of having gained large quantities. I was over 16 stone at my heaviest, at 5'7. Pure and simple "comfort" eating - there were days when I ate absolutely nothing but carbs. Your body will not snap back either, not after (like most women) 20+ years of yoyoing.

As I said before, I lost 6 stone just by calorie counting. I did oh-so-sensible things like eating nothing all day so I could drink pints in the evening. Or ate nothing so I could have a family bag of maltesers at the cinema. It was pretty disastrous for my health. What it tells me is that my destructive thinking processes around food hadn't changed at all- although of course I was far more socially acceptable at 10 stone!

Finding the low-carb WOE has been a revelation, because it makes me more mindful. Sugar is a drug to me - I am addicted to it. Cutting it out makes sense. Wheat makes me feel like shit. Therefore, yes, I've cut out those food groups - but with positive consequences. Calorie counting made me ill, because of my (very common) warped view of food. A more mindful WOE, based on health rather than weight, is very useful.

I'm 11 stone 10 now, but absolutely the healthiest I've ever been.

Of course, some people need more calories than others, but it's usually fairly straightforward to work out if you're slightly lower or higher than average by tracking your weight every day on a digital scale.

I honestly think the vast majority of people who have sedentary jobs (i.e. an office) would lose weight if they exercised 6 times a week and ate 1200 calories a day net. (I.e. if you burn an extra 300 calories running six times a week, you can eat 1500 calories a day). I think someone would have to be extremely metabolically unusual not to lose weight in those circumstances (there are such people, but it isn't common).

I should add that it obviously depends on height too!