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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

More WIBU- DB and parents (very long)

69 replies

Worried3 · 19/01/2014 20:01

I have posted before about my difficult relationship with my DB, who has a personality disorder- and the fact that our father can't accept that while I will be civil to my DB, I have no desire to maintain a relationship with him.

Anyway, my grandmother has recently become quite unwell. She lives very rurally around 3 hours drive from my parents, she's a widow and has no family locally. Realistically she can no longer manage on her own. This became apparent during her stay with my parents over christmas- I managed to arrange appointments for investigation and diagnosis, so she is still staying with them. During this, I have been trying to help where I can (I am a single parent and work full time), as my mother also cares for my father. Dad had to retire early due to ill health- he's not severely disabled- has balance and mobility issues, can't drive etc and thus mum has quite a lot on her plate as she also works full time. Working is her choice, as they could afford for her to retire early, but she says without work and her horse, she thinks her sanity would have departed long ago!

My DB and his wife have 3 DCs. My DB and his wife seem to believe they are entitled to a "child-free" break (usually a long-weekend every month or so). Normally, SILs parents (both retired) take the children as they live closer and also seem to be happy to have the children whenever DB and SIL choose. Which is fine, as it's their choice and they are happy to do it. My parents try to help, but due to circumstances it is less often. Partly, this is also because while she accepts it's their choice how they live their lives/spend their money, my mum doesn't feel that parents really need to have regular weekends away from their DCs, and while she will help for special occasions/every so often isn't really up for weekends every month or so. When she does babysit, she has to go and collect the children and drop them off- 45 minute drive each way- as neither DB or SIL drive.

Due to my grandmother staying with my parents, and especially in view of how she is feeling both physically and emotionally (sudden loss of vision in 1 eye and 6/36 vision in other, expressive and receptive dysphasia), my mum had to tell DB and SIL that she couldn't babysit as planned (she gave them 4 weeks notice of this, and they hadn't actually booked anywhere to stay as they like to try and get last minute deals). They went ballistic apparently, mainly because mum has still been helping out with my DD when I'm on night-shifts/on-call. This might seem unfair, but there is only 1 of her not 3, and DBs eldest has to have his own space and doesn't share a room with his brothers. DPs have 2 spare bedrooms and granny is in 1 of those, so this would not be possible. That, and I don't really have an option about my shifts (other than not to work). and since my ex-partner and I split he has moved abroad, meaning I'm on my own (whole other thread).

DM was really upset, then indignant- she told them to grow up and not ask her for childcare until they could apologise. DF, on the other hand, wanted to smooth things over and mum tends to want to keep him happy as her life is easier if he is (and she feels sorry for him too, I think)- so in the spirit of reconciliation she asked me if I could look after DBs DC as a favour to her.

Given the circumstances, I felt it would have been churlish to say no. So, I agreed to pick them up on Friday after dinner and then drop them off Sunday afternoon about 4pm. This was last week.

The eldest, DBs stepson, is 12 and has recently been diagnosed as being on the autistic spectrum, and can be fussy about food etc- I telephoned SIL to find out what he is likely to eat, any problems I'm unlikely to run into/things he won't cope with. She wasn't very helpful, but said he'd probably eat fish-fingers and chips. The others, aged 7 and 3, will eat anything apparently

Then next day, DB phones and says "not to feed the others any posh stuff, they won't like it". I was a bit taken aback, but let it go. I hadn't planned on cooking anything I didn't think nephews would be unaccustomed to as a) I wouldn't want them to be uncomfortable, and the eldest has valid reasons for having a melt down if I did this and b) it would be a waste of food

On Saturday, all the children helped me make fish-fingers from scratch- they all really loved crumbing the fish etc. My DD doesn't like chips, so I made baby baked potato for her, and they had peas, sweetcorn and carrots. On Sunday we made pizza- they helped make dough and chose toppings. The eldest surprised me by joining in, and eating the food when cooked. They all got to help out with the horses and DDs pony, walking the dogs, went to the park etc. I thought it had gone quite well when I dropped them off.

I got a phone call yesterday from DB (with SIL pitching in on speaker phone) to complain about their stay. He was very rude, and kept on about how I'd "spoiled them" and how they can't stop talking about how much fun they had (not sure why this is a problem?) They now want to make pizza and help SIL with making dinner- apparently, this is a major hassle as they don't have time, SIL hates cooking and their DCs are disappointed. Now they are "turning their noses up" at shop bought pizza- I can't believe this after only 1 pizza making session. My answer to this was that I'd done them a favour by looking after their children, collecting them/dropping off- and in my home I will cook whatever I like.

I had actually thought I'd been considerate my cooking food I thought they'd like. The only valid complaint they had is that my middle nephew now wants to learn to ride, which I know is out of their reach financially- but I don't see how I could have anticipated that. It ended in a row, and I told them not to darken my doorstep again. I haven't mention this to my parents yet, as I think they've got enough on their plate at the moment.

Obviously, my DB felt differently and has informed our parents. My DM told him he had behaved badly. DF said he thought he'd been unreasonable, but that we should make up. I have refused until I get an apology.

Then DF phones today to say could I please babysit my nephews next week as DB/SIL have a chance to go away, but SIL parents can't take them and as situation with granny hasn't changed, my parents can't either.

I said no. DB and SIL haven't apologised and I don't see why I should help them out again. And why do they want me to when I've been so awful?

Dad has phoned again saying DB has been on the phone again putting pressure on mum to take them. Dad says I'm just being difficult as "I know how DB is" and "you really shouldn't do things the parents don't like, it's bound to upset them". 1) DB didn't specify activities his DCs couldn't do 2) he knows I have horses/dogs and they would need walking/fed/checked on etc while his DCs were staying. On this basis, I feel I haven't done anything unreasonable and I am not inclined to let this go (in no small part related to DBs past behaviour). I'm fed up and don't want to see him or his wife again. I'm also fed up with my dad's attitude towards my feelings about my brother and me not wanting a relationship with him.

AIBU to say no to looking after my nephews as I have not had an apology (I am aware this makes mum's life more difficult, but feel she needs to say no and stick to it- and tell dad to stop being such a sop to DB)?

And AIBU to want my dad to just accept that not only can DB be in the wrong, on this occasion he is? I don't want a relationship with DB, AIBU to expect my dad to accept this (he doesn't have to like it, just stop trying to force us together/guilt trip me into it)?

Sorry for the very, very, very long post. I don't want to drip feed and needed to let off steam!

OP posts:
PumpkinPositive · 19/01/2014 20:36

Maybe you're looking at this the wrong way. Maybe the monthly walkabouts are not to give your DB/SIL a break from their offspring, so much as a chance to give the kids a break from them.

You only have to tolerate your brother from the other end of a phone which you can hang up. Imagine living with him 24/7.

nvrgooglenkdShiaLaBoeuffTigga · 19/01/2014 20:38

I'd be totally tempted to say yes, then do every single fun, crafty, cooking thing I could think of and send them home with tons of home made treats for B and SiL.

EvilIsAGiftTiggaxx

parakeet · 19/01/2014 20:41

Your brother and his wife are totally in the wrong and I would just not have anything to do with them anymore.

But it did make me smile when you said they asked for no posh food, just fishfingers - and you made them from scratch. Hee hee. Trying to make point, just a teensy bit? Would it have killed you to have bought a packet of Birds Eye?

NatashaBee · 19/01/2014 20:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WhereYouLeftIt · 19/01/2014 20:43

YANBU. IMO, your brother is being a prick, but that's to be expected and won't change. The villain of the piece in this situation is actually your father. He knows your brother has been unreasonable, you said he had even told him so - yet still, he wants you to accommodate him?

"mum tends to want to keep him [your father] happy as her life is easier if he is (and she feels sorry for him too, I think)"
I felt a little concerned by this. Your mum's life is easier if your dad is happy can be reworded into 'your dad makes your mum's life harder if he's not kept sweet'. (Ok, that's twisting it a bit, but not really by much.) And as for feeling sorry for him - hmm, pity can be an absolute gift if the pitied has a mind to manipulate the pitier.

I honestly think you and your mum should present a united front to your father and tell him not to be such an arse. It's all very well for him to whine at you to do your brother this huge and unwarranted favour, but your brother is obviously of the 'get an inch demand a mile' school of thought and so it is absolutely the wrong thing to capitulate to his demands. Your father can make a rod for his own back, but he can't expect anyone else to volunteer to be beaten with it.

cees · 19/01/2014 20:44

YANBU

Can you be firm with your Dad and tell him its between you and your brother and not to talk to you about it.

LessMissAbs · 19/01/2014 20:47

Wait until your DB develops an allergy to horses in fact all furred animals, so he has an excuse for his dcs never to go anywhere near them!

I think Tigga's idea is the best. I avoid being drawn into it by luring them up to the horses at every opportunity, talking about horses to them whenever I see them, drawing them horses, modelling them play doh horses, showing them videos of friend's dcs of the same age having fun on their ponies - the possibilities are endless and BIL knows he is beat.

MammaTJ · 19/01/2014 20:53

Sockreturningpixie

I clearly have first dibs! We have got along very well until now, never having fallen out, please don't spoil it with your threats of violence, leading to my death! If you must hurt me, put me in hospital for a nice rest! Grin

AngelaDaviesHair · 19/01/2014 20:54

I think your DB and SIL probably treat their children fairly badly. You've had them one weekend and treated them nicely. Brother feels shown up.

Do not apologise, tell your mother not to fold. She cannot manage their demands and you shouldn't bother, so a firm line needs to be drawn now.

Hoppinggreen · 19/01/2014 20:58

Home made pizzas and horse riding??? You evil cow!!!
Your brother and his wife are moronic piss takers and I wouldn't help them out if I were you. Your poor mum though

HouseOfGingerbread · 19/01/2014 21:02

Not really the point of the thread, but eldest nephew may qualify for free lessons from Riding for the Disabled. It's not just for physical disabilities.

Your brother and sister in law are idiots, clearly.

Liara · 19/01/2014 21:02

Your brother and your father take the piss because you and your mother are pushovers.

Stop letting them walk all over you and they may start to behave a little more like normal human beings rather than entitled twats.

Liara · 19/01/2014 21:04

Sorry - that was a bit abrupt. I don't do diplomacy at this time of the month. Blush

whatareyoueventalkingabout · 19/01/2014 21:15

I want to come and stay at your house.

IneedAsockamnesty · 19/01/2014 21:19

mammaTJ

Your right,I'm off to the naughty step to think about my behaviour

But the offer stands should you require a short term break I could feed you raw chicken.

Lambzig · 19/01/2014 22:32

I have just been on the phone with my lovely sister. I burst into tears because she offered to come and stay and look after DDs and DS for a night so DH and I can go away for the night on our tenth anniversary. It will be the first night we have had away in five years and I can count the nights out on one hand.

That's just how it is for now, but I would be grovelling at your feet if you had offered to have our DC for a night. I wouldn't care if you fed them Haribo for dinner and diet coke for breakfast and told them I was bad for not letting them have that every day, I would adore you forever.

Your DB and SIL need to do some serious grovelling before you should even consider it and then you would be perfectly justified in telling them to fuck off. Do they actually like their children? Poor thing shipped off as an inconvenience every other weekend.

LegoStillSavesMyLife · 19/01/2014 22:43

Lord all mighty. They had to much fun? Well shame on you. Children having fun, whatever next...

NynaevesSister · 19/01/2014 22:45

YANBU

It would depend on whether you want to spend time with your nephews. I think you actually hold all the cards at the moment. Your DB needs you more than you need him. So if you did want to spend some time with your nephews I would tell your dad that you will do it, but the activities will all be the same as last time and you will have no phone calls telling you off.

LegoStillSavesMyLife · 19/01/2014 22:45

sock. I accidentally fed the whole house out of date slightly raw chicken, and we've all survived so far. You may need to wallop her with a frying pan to guarantee a hospital stay.

Worried3 · 19/01/2014 22:51

The thing is, I know I am not being unreasonable to say no to DB/SIL as they are being very rude (not that this behaviour is in any way out of character) but I do feel guilty about it because it puts pressure on my mum.

She's got enough to deal with at the moment (my DGM is her mum) and could really do without this. However, I feel if I don't put a stop to it now, my DB will continue to expect it, and DF will kid himself that everything is fine.

DB and SIL don't do much to help anyone, if they can help it. They always have an excuse. There usual reason is that they don't drive, and DP do live quite rurally- which is not totally unreasonable, although there are buses to the nearest village where they could be picked up (I know that might be tough with kids in tow, but DB could go on his own occasionally). However, they could help in other ways, such as not asking DM do babysit for a whole weekend.

I am not worried about DB- I avoid him if I can, so usually only see him at family things or at DPs.

His most recent reasoning re the problem with my babysitting is that I obviously set out to prove how much better a parent I am by cooking their dinner (I usually do this for DD, so it's not like I changed it specially for them coming). Also because I earn more than them, live in a nicer house, have pets etc and allowed his DC to join in, that I am rubbing their noses in my relative wealth (I assume he means his and SIL, rather than their DCs). It's daft and petty, and I am beyond trying to reason with them.

But I still feel guilty for not helping mum. I did have a word with DF and said I thought putting pressure on mum to babysit, when we all knew why she couldn't was completely unacceptable and that they should just say no.

Dad agrees that it's not fair, but says because the eldest can be "hard work" they need their breaks. I pointed out mum did too, and that I work full time, and am helping out with DGM and him (ferrying to hospital appointments, making meals etc)- so I could do without having 3 extra DC for a whole weekend every other week or even every month. I think he just gets so worked up, as having a close family is very important to him and I don't think he wants to admit that the reality is what he has is two children who have very little in common, and don't get on. He also tends to try and ignore DPs personality disorder and the behaviour related to this, as I think he has trouble accepting the diagnosis.

I hate feeling guilt tripped into doing something for DB and I hate that DF can't just accept things for how they are and move on.

OP posts:
SolidGoldBrass · 19/01/2014 23:01

It seems to me that the core of the problem is your father thinks, and has taught the whole family to think, that men are more important than women. Therefore you should indulge your brother and do what he wants, just as your mother should indulge your father and keep him happy.

FunkyBoldRibena · 19/01/2014 23:04

They can't afford for the kids to do stuff because they spend their spare cash on child free holidays every other weekend. Nice.

Worried3 · 19/01/2014 23:06

I should also say that DF believes that by having contact with the rest of our family, we can "make up" for the fact that my DB and SIL aren't the sanest of people, which isn't likely given the amount of time they or I could feasibly spend with them- and given that he seems to like to pretend he doesn't know about DBs mental health issues, is hypocritical. He is also concerned as they don't have the most productive attitude to work/education etc, and he worries for the boys future- he thinks they'll end up in dead end jobs, or unemployed etc. I know that sounds very judgemental, but I can see where he's coming from.

The thing is, I don't think it would make any difference- they'll either decide to stick in at school/work and make the best of their talents despite their parents or they won't. I really won't be able to spend the amount of time with them to make a significant impact on them, and as they make little effort with mum and dad unless they want something/fancy a visit (i.e. mum always has to do pick ups/drop offs which with work, dad and now granny, means less contact), I don't think the contact they have with them will make much odds either.

Apart from anything, I don't want a relationship with my DB and SIL. Too much water under the bridge and they won't change, so I don't see why I should have to "be close" to assuage my dad's conscience.

I am sounding like a right sanctimonious old moan, but it's how I feel!

OP posts:
Thetallesttower · 19/01/2014 23:20

I agree with SGB, why are you trying to please firstly your brother and then your father, at the expense of your sanity and your mother's health?

They are awful people, stick to your guns, you are right about them and you mustn't take their children ever again - how dare they speak to you like that after you cared for their children. They don't need weekends away from the children I never heard of anyone who didn't care for their own children on weekends!

Don't feel guilty either, they aren't. Let your mum make her own decision, it is up to her whether to join in this ridiculous situation. You are perpetuating it by even contemplating looking after them for one second (given they don't need looking after!)

Worried3 · 19/01/2014 23:30

I have very little to do with DB usually- just family events really. It's only because of everything else going on, and the effect on mum, that I got dragged into it. I was doing her the favour, not DB, IYSWIM.

DB normally doesn't contact me, as I rarely do what he wants. I don't like him, he doesn't like me- so there's very little reason to speak to each other, far less see each other.

Also realised, I make dad sound like a bit of a monster. Generally speaking, he's not. When it comes to DB, he's a total idiot. It's been going on a long time, and I suspect some of it is guilt- although he doesn't acknowledge DBs mental health problems (narcissistic personality disorder)- he did once tell DM he felt they must have done something very wrong as parents for DB to turn out they way he did.

In the past when DB hasn't got his own way/is under stress/ any other excuse for bad behaviour you might want to insert, he has done something stupid (he also has a history of drug and alcohol addiction, running up huge debts, banned for drink-driving in mums car while DF was in ICU. He excused the last one on the basis of being "stressed" by dad's illness). I think my parents worry that if he gets too "stressed" he'll do something terrible and they'll have to pick up the pieces/live with that for the rest of their lives. I keep telling them that if does something, at the end of the day, as a sentient adult it is him that is responsible (as it's not like he's psychotic and doesn't know what he's doing). Mum seems to get this, and is getting better at saying no. Still a long way to go though.

Since his illness, dad has lost most of his (physical) independence and this has hit him hard- I think this is why mum feels sorry for him. Mum does have a tendency to give in, as she dislikes arguments and usually prefers to broker the peace. She despairs of my DB, and I know she is ashamed of much of his behaviour and doesn't believe a word he says. The last few years she has got better at saying no- mainly because I lived with them for a while (much butting of heads with dad) and pointed out that she was entitled to do things she wanted and if she'd rather not see DB then she should just politely decline. DB/SIL weekend long visits with DC in tow, during which they barely lifted a finger, have ceased as a result.

I think DF and DB should move in together- that would soon sort it out!

Also, thanks for all the offers of adoption Smile

OP posts:
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