To wonder what I'm doing wrong....

[TokenGirl1]

I moved to a new place when my dd started nursery and she's now reception. Lots of the other parents knew each other from the pre school my dd did not attend.

So that my dd got to know the other children and to be friendly I had a whole class party for my dd in nursery and reception and then invited some of those children to my ds third birthday with their younger siblings.

I always try to be friendly and have invited 3 or 4 children for play dates (along with their parents).2 of those play dates have been reciprocated.

I'm finding out from different sources ( completely accidentally, I'm not fishing) that there have been 6 or so parties that my dd has not been invited to. I'm not expecting her to be invited to every one but I'm upset and sad for her that a couple of them have been children that dd plays with lots at school and in the playground before and after school. It feels worst when dd best friend has been invited to every single one, even the children who she is not obviously friendly with.

I'm sat in the cafe near school listening to these mums talking about the forthcoming party, one with their back to me so obviously freezing me out. I'm friendly with one of the mums and asked her if I'd done something to offend anyone and she said no, it's not personal but it feels like it. I stand with this group and they barely acknowledge me and it hurts.

My dd is a good girl, she's never been in trouble for being horrid to other kids and is friendly to people.

I guess I feel so sad for her as it feels as though she's been excluded socially and that's how it was for me at school.

Any tips would be much appreciated. Please be kind.

Is your DD actually upset by anything that's happened? It sounds, in the nicest possible way, that you might be projecting what happened to you onto her.

TokenGirl, I'm sorry to say that some people are just heartless cliques, that is how they are. I once lived where almost all families were Naval families and they excluded everyone else. Grim.

Could your Dd join Brownies? It seems to be a good way to make friends and have lots of events to look forward to.

I honestly don't think you're doing anything wrong. Keep doing what you're doing. Be smiley, friendly and open. It'll happen naturally - eventually.

I do understand. I moved to a new area when my dd started nursery. It's the kind of area where the mums all know each and plenty of them went to school together! I'm a naturally friendly person and I went bounding into school with a big smile on. They looked at me like I was slightly mad. After a few months, I reined it back and just got on with it. In all honesty, it wasn't until the end of reception year that I started to make some nice mum friends. Some of them are in my dd's class some aren't even in her school year! It's nice actually to know mums with children higher up the school.

My dd is now 9. She had no play dates in nursery, reception and maybe 1 in Y1. Now in Y4 she's incredibly happy, really popular with the boys and girls. We still don't do many play dates though. If honest, I don't have the energy

Parties can be awkward. However, you'll find it's just the way it goes. My dd and ds hadn't been invited to a few. After a whole you get relieved that you don't have to do the gift thing that weekend. When they're tiny, I think the invites are directed my the mums (maybe why your dd is overlooked as you're 'new' to the area and not in their immediate circle). As the Dcs get older it's much more child led. I'm sure your dd will be just fine.

I find that mum-cliques change throughout school just like dc cliques. There was the tightest tightest group of mums in my dd's nursery class. Roll on 5 yrs and they don't really hang out anymore and one has even changed schools due to a parent fallout

Try not to worry xx

Thanks.

My dd knows nothing at the moment although today she mentioned her friend's party that I know she has not been invited to. She looked a bit disappointed.

I'm doing my best to make sure she doesn't know I'm upset about this, hence posting on a forum rather talking about it in rl.

I do have one or two other friends at the school. I guess I should steer clear of them but if they and their kids arethe core ccrowd, I worry that she will continue to be excluded from this group of children (about 8-10 of them) and mostly girls.

Thank you Harry and Bunty. You've make me feel better.

It just breaks my heart to think that she will go through the social exclusion that I went through at school (mainly down to my mother's behaviour). You've put my mind rest and hopefully it will improve in a few years.

If someone is going to assume I've not invited their child to a party because I dislike them personally then tbh I just won't bother pusuing friendship with them because I just don't have the time or energy for that. As you say many of the parents have known each other for years, it's normal for them to go with their old friends because it's easy. They're not required to include you just because you invited them to your dd's party.
Let your dd have her own friendships and don't look to her to provide your social life. For now focus on one or two people that you like a develop a proper friendship with them. Breaking into an established group is hard and rarely works.

I totally agree with letting your dd develop her own friendships.

My dd is good friends at school with some children I would barely recognise let alone be friends with their parents!

Please don't worry (although I know it's hard). Your anxiety will be picked up by your dd and the other school mums. There is no reason whatsoever that your dd will spend her school career in social exclusion. She's only just begun really. Give her time.

As I said, I do understand the anxiety. I didn't cope at all well when my dd started school and I thought I would. It was a mixture of lots of things - social anxiety being just one of them. I found comfort with my old friends, who were silently all anxious about similar things.

It's only the second term, and last term may have seen people belt-tightening before Christmas.

It's also possible that these cliquey people are using their children's social lives to justify meeting up with their friends. If that's the case, you're unlikely to "win" your/DD's way "in" until, bluntly, you look more "worthwhile". Of course, that's bloody crap, so if you can network outside that grouo, it will benefit you enormously. Have you time to commit to the PTA? That's a ready-made network for DD, especislly with the older children, who will make her look big, as they say hello to her around school.

Why does it matter if your dd is excluded from that particular group?

I feel like it matters because they are the majority of the girls in the class.

I guess I'm assuming that if they see each other lots outside of school then it cements their friendships and leaves dd out in the cold as such, like not being invited to parties that the others are all going to.

Don't get me wrong, I have some very close friends outside school and we see them and their children. Dd also does ballet and she's made a friend there in a different year group.

I have helped a bit on the PTA but often can't make meetings because dh doesn't get home until very late. Think I will contact the school and ask them to put me in touch with the committee.

I'm the kind of person who will always talk to someone if they don't know anyone and it still amazes me the number of adults who just don't think like that and put themselves in the other person's position.

Thanks for the advice.

No sadly some people out there are just not very kind. I found similar when I moved to a new area. It caused me so much anxiety at the time.

But what I see now is that it's actually a really short time before they choose their own friends. My dd (8) is very clear on who she wants round to play, to her party etc. I suspect others are too.

A woman who had snubbed me for two years was suddenly so charming once her dd teamed up with mine and she wanted her round to tea. She now chats animatedly with me like I'm a long lost friend. I expect she'll go back to ignoring me if the dd's stop being friends.

I think you have to take a step back and see it for what it is. Be pleasant and polite but don't necessarily expect to make friends with other parents in the school playground. The dcs will sort themselves out eventually - I wouldn't worry.

School playgrounds are absolutely appalling for this. YOu're not doing anything wrong at all, by the sound of it. Once people get into that unpleasant cliquey cycle you just have to leave them to it. If your daughter is happy enough in school, though, then she probably is fine, and you should try not to worry too much. She will find her own way. I could rant at length about playground dynamics, but I won't. But really - where do grown women get off with behaving like petulant, unpleasant children??

I find it a bit weird that you want your dd to be friends with these girls because there happens to be a lot of them. Surely it matters more that they're nice and she likes them? Friendship will develop with girls she gets along with.

In what way do the other parents behave like children adeleh? I'm curious because I haven't experienced it.

I'm referring to the behaviour the OP describes, and which I've also experienced. Of gathering together in tight cliques in the playground and excluding and snubbing others, as happened to Greengrass. Probably some of these women are pleasant when out of that dynamic, but it makes arriving at the school as a newcomer very difficult, and you feel it more acutely at school because of the fear that it's your child who's going to lose out. There was a novel based on that kind of behaviour that came out last year called The Hive.
Glad you haven't experienced it. We moved recently and it doesn't seem to be a problem at our current school, but was very bad at the school before. There were times when it was quite funny, like when we had to get together to make Christmas decorations and a couple of the mothers refused to speak to me but commented loudly to each other about how crap my craft was. They were right - it was crap - but they were v rude and childish to make such a big deal of it.

Gosh that's terrible! I ask because I run.a toddler group so I was worried behaviour that might not strike me as problematic would come across to others as childish or rude. But I couldn't see any of our mums commenting like that!
I would say though that I see it as normal for there to be established groups andthat it's just one of those things you have to contend with in new environments. Bullying isn't on though, ever.

Adeleh, that's awful! I just don't know why some people think it's necessary to be unkind.

I think some people are bought up to only ever think of number one.

One of the women texts me (our daughter's are friends) but she doesn't go out of her way when the rest of the group are there. It's almost like she doesn't want to be properly associated with me because I'm not part of that group. I've begun to be less inclined to stand near her at the school gates as she's behaving like a fair weather friend. I'm not going to be rude or anything as our daughter's are friends.

I actually thought it was quite funny at the time, since I'm so bad at that sort of thing that I'd never lie awake at night worrying that people were being rude about it. And difficult to worry too much about people as ignorant as that. But I found it astonishing that they were like that. And I find it astonishing that your fairweather 'friend' is distant to you when the others are around. That's what I mean by playground dynamics - once outside of that context of school I've found that most people behave normally - but it really does feel sometimes like being back at school and the cool kids making sure that you know that you can't be one of them.

I really wouldn't worry about your DD not being invited to parties. The children give a gift in exchange for attending your DD's party. I think it's unfair to expect a return invite to an other child's party. The gift is the swap.

As long as your DD makes a small handful of genuinely nice male/female friends she will be fine. These popular groups aren't all they are cracked up to be. In my school the popular groups are in fact the overly competitive or bitchy behaved kids - followed by sheep type kids. I'm really pleased that my kids and their friends are the opposite.

In your shoes id aim to build solid relationships with nice/caring adults/kids on a one to one basis.

Adeleh, you've summed it up perfectly. I do feel like I'm not cool enough for their group. Pathetic!

Like I say, I dont expect them to be invited to every party but I an a little sad that people my dd considers her friend (and the mother's see them playing together before and after school) are not inviting her to their party but other kids are invited that the children don't normally socialise together. I know this because I see it at drop off and pick up and when I regularly help out in school. Those are the ones that really get to me and make me wonder what we have/have not done.

I'm going to invite a couple of the other Mums out that I talk to and just focus on chatting to them from now on.

It's not pathetic of you, though - it's pathetic of them! Seriously. It's maybe understandable when you're 13, but these are grown women. Are they really so worried about keeping their clique intact that they can't say a civil hello. Saying hello doesn't mean that I'm going to turn up on their doorstep like a demented loon and insist on being invited to dinner. Nor am I going to insist on being included on their joint holidays to Italy etc. And I don't think my DCs should automatically be invited to every party. But I do expect a minimum of civilised adult behaviour. When we'd been in the rude school for just a couple of months we invited my son's whole class to a party to make sure nobody was left out. One mother didn't bother replying until the morning of the party and then just marched up, threw the RSVPs in my hand, barked 'They're not coming' and stalked off again. She didn't speak again for the next 3 years, when we left. Another mother explained that this was her way of telling me she didn't want to be friends. The only reason I might mind is for my children, but really, am I going to go home and cry because I can't be friends with that woman? Ridiculous behaviour.

Excellent plan btw to focus on just a few who are friendly, and to get your DD to join extracurricular activities. But don't beat yourself up wondering what you've done. You haven't done anything wrong by the sound of it. Hope things get easier.

Thanks Adelah. Appreciate the support. Cannot believe the behaviour of that woman about your party, horrific!

In my case I had started to get on quite well with two in the group but the head honcho decided my face didn't fit. I didn't know at the time just wondered why me and dd were excluded from even whole class/parent events. (Head honcho was head of pta and class rep). I had unknowingly threatened the head honcho by being slightly friends with her bff. As it was they had a massiive bust up about a year later and now stand at opposite ends of the playground. The truth is you are too cool for them. Seek out the ones who distance themselves would be my advice. I think the book you mention Adelah is set in the next town along from me. I haven't read it yet though.

In my case I had started to get on quite well with two in the group but the head honcho decided my face didn't fit. I didn't know at the time just wondered why me and dd were excluded from even whole class/parent events. (Head honcho was head of pta and class rep). I had unknowingly threatened the head honcho by being slightly friends with her bff. As it was they had a massiive bust up about a year later and now stand at opposite ends of the playground. The truth is you are too cool for them. Seek out the ones who distance themselves would be my advice. I think the book you mention Adelah is set in the next town along from me. I haven't read it yet though.