To say that if I hear the Tory cliche "hard working families" once more

[DreamingofSummer]

I'll personally nail Osborne's scrotum to the floor

Retro, nobody's trying to tell you how to run your life.

You crack on and do what you want to do, just pay for it yourself.

No one else owes you anything.

What about working tax credits? Child tax credits? Plenty of people work damn hard and still get these 'extra luxuries' because their pay is shit

So if your son, as an adult, is stuck in a NMW job, he should forgo having children? Because otherwise, he'd probably be receiving some sort of working benefit, not to mention child benefit

hahahahah feel free to stop my CTC and CB for my three children (all conceived within a marriage and when we didn't qualify for anything but CB ) but please then tell me if I should a) give up my job - can't work without childcare or b) put all 3 in care - and cost the state a hell of a lot more

thank you oh wise ones

Woking tax credits are an unfortunate necessity just now, child tax credits are nothing but a useless waste of money.

The disability element of child tax credits should be separated to come under disability benefits, not tax credits.

Why do people assume that if you disagree with one benefit that you must automatically disagree with all of them? It's bizarre.

HappyMummyOfOne, would you be ok if either your son or future DIL were a SAHP out of choice?

And I still don't get why those who say people shouldn't have kids unless they can afford everything for them are OK with having other people pay their childcare?

It because they are 'hard working families' jellybeans. They deserve to have the state support their choices.

I forgot the

Presumably HappyMummy would like to see wages rise too.

Then we wouldn't NEED tax credits just to survive in many cases....because that is what tax credits are there for, to save companies having to pay people enough to afford the basics.....like a roof over ones head.

What HappyMummy wants and what her son or future DIL do might well be two different things. Then the DIL will be on here moaning about her uptight MIL.

Wr cannot always influence what our children do.,.only guide them.

"HappyMummyOfOne, would you be ok if either your son or future DIL were a SAHP out of choice?"

No is the honest answer. What is the point of education if you waste it by not using it? I would expect him to work and pay his way in life. I doubt most parents want their child to be unemployed by choice.

As for DIL being a SAHM, i'd get no say. I can only hope he meets somebody who loves him and shared all the adult responsibilities than a selfish person who see him as a paypacket and doesnt see why she should work.

"As for DIL being a SAHM, i'd get no say. I can only hope he meets somebody who loves him and shared all the adult responsibilities than a selfish person who see him as a paypacket and doesnt see why she should work"

And it is precisely for this that the hard working family cliché was born. Despite the overwhelming view of this thread, some people are actually sucked into this vision. Wow.

There is more to sharing family responsibilities than the amount of money your DIL can cough up.

One or two parents working at NMW are hardworking,

They would still need some form of top up though as NMW is so low.

I agree though that family life is about far more than who makes the biggest financial contribution. I worked as did my exH when DS was small, but we pulled together financially as much as possible. Despite this there was inevitably a time when I was bringing in far less and yes....I had to rely on him financially. It wasn't forever.

Despite this my then MIL was appalled that I jad reduced my work hours, even though it was something my H and I had discussed at length. We both earned enough that I got no more than CB and basic tax credit even on part time hours.

It irritated me beyond belief that she saw me as being in some way irresponsible and a burden on her precious son.

In fact her precious son and I had already realised our much wanted child had developmental issues and needed more input than he could get from a nursery/playgroup. She coukd not/would not see this.

My one tinge of gratefullness is that her son was (and still is) a great Dad who offers lots of support and who understands the challenges of our son. Despite us being separated he remains a great Dad.

Obviously MIL did have to back down once DS had a diagnosis. .., and as he has got older that has become more apparent. She and I can talk now but her suspicion that I was out to sponge off her son was damaging and hurtful at a time when things were already hard.

Its not like the world would cease if benefits were greatly cut. But that is exactly what is happening for many people with disabilities, people like you have told the Daily Mail that we want cuts and those bone idle gits should be working for a living so cut it to the bone to encourage them to do so. Because of people like you, people with disabilities are dying, so the world for some, does cease to exist.

I doubt many parents would want their child to be unemployed by choice.

And there you and I agree HappyMummy.(for once).

Employment brings so many benefits. ..and not just financial. Sometimes life gets in the way unexpectedly though..,, when you least want it to,

HappyMummy

Why do you see everybody as having to work.
Some people want a sahp because it is their choice and belief.
Why pay somebody else to mind your children while you work, when if you didn't work you wouldn't need somebody else to mind them?
I'm not saying this is the case for all working parents but for those that fall into this camp what do you suggest.
Tax credits are paid to boost low wages, if people were paid properly they wouldn't need top ups.
There are many that it makes no financial gain for in working, with or without tax credits.

happymummy yes with benefit cuts peoples lives change dramatically it is not a case of must try harder for folk either

Yes, as others have observed, I think it was Blair who coined the term "hard working families" way before spamface et al came on the scene.

I have read every post on this thread and as a Mum who chose to stay at home to NURTURE her much wanted 5 DCs whilst her OH went out to work I find some of the comments very disturbing. Yes we had CB but it was before the days of WTC, sometimes it was hard but we coped as we felt it was better for our children to be cared for by their parent.

There have been some very bigoted and offensive posts left who seem to think that going out to work and leaving your DC with a stranger, which on the initial few weeks of the child being left with them they are, more important than being there for them.

I do respect the fact that people wish to work and provide for their children, it is their informed choice to do so in some cases. But sad to say some of the posters do not have the same balance of respect going by their comments.

Blair osbourne they off the same mould political parties have merged into one big thing if I didnt know any better i would swear Ed miliband was a tory

Dia do keep up-most of us can't parent properly anymore,only teenagers on minimum wage caring for multiple babies in nurseries can raise children properly now.

Sahm do nothing,contribute nothing.Parents are pretty pointless now,I'm half expecting the Bounty pushers to be replaced by nursery reps soon.Best get those kids out of the hands of those pesky parents ASAP.

Oh and let's just open a bottomless pit to fund endless childcare,after all some lifestyle choices are soooo more worthy than others.Hard working people who contribute to society are the likes of those selling oh so useful luxury notebooks or who have inherited squillions from relations selling wallpaper.

So says the Condems.

As a previous poster so eloquently put it-knobs,the lot of them.

But yes you're right the lack of respect is quite staggering.

If the boot was on the other foot there would be uproar.

Retro

Just to go down further into the bottomless pit.... There will soon be delivery suites in the work place so the Mum can hand the baby straight to the Nursery Rep and get right back to work.

'As for DIL being a SAHM, i'd get no say. I can only hope he meets somebody who loves him and shared all the adult responsibilities than a selfish person who see him as a paypacket and doesnt see why she should work.'

Do you see all SAHP's as reflected in the last sentance of the above? (as a selfish person who simply doesn't fancy working)

How do you feel about our parents generation many of whom were SAHPs? Are they all selfish?

What about retired people? (especially those who retire early in 50s/60s) Are they wasting an education? How about people that have 5 years out but then go back, are they slightly less selfish than those who SAH for 10 years?

The way we live now is not necessarily normal historically or cross culturally. Just because someone says working a 'magic number' of hours a week makes you a 'hardworking family' or worthy person doesn't make it so. It is a perfectly good thing to want to work less, not more, and have time with children.

Why would we listen anyway to those in power who lie and cheat and were born with a silver spoon in their mouth? Erm no thanks Mr Clegg i think i can decide what works for my family better than you..

I hope I will be a good MIL as I would be happy and support future DIL/SIL whatever their family choices re working/SAH etc. EVEN if they were the opposite to the ones I would make. that's what makes good people/family/friends, being open minded and able to realise that just because someone takes a different path to you, it doesn't make it the wrong one.