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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Children not allowed to use the toilet in school

82 replies

JanetAndRoy · 16/01/2014 18:54

My DSs are 8 and 5. Both came home from school today with soiled pants.
Apparently the boys are only allowed to use the toilets at lunch and break times because someone has been blocking the toilets and flooding them.
Also all the boys had to miss playtime earlier in the week because no one would admit to flooding the loos.

I am so angry that my children had to sit in pooey pants almost all afternoon. DS1 told his teacher he was desperate, but teacher still refused to let him go. Also annoyed that half the school are being punished for one boy's behaviour. (The girls are not restricted BTW)

AIBU to send a sharply worded email to the Head?

Also might CC in the SENCO as DS2 is being seen by the encopresis clinic.

OP posts:

TheGreatHunt · 16/01/2014 20:15

I wet myself at school a few times :(

greenbananas · 16/01/2014 20:17

This happened in a school where I knew some of the children attending (their mum told me). I rang the local authority to ask if this was okay, they said no it wasn't, asked me which school I was talking about, and presumably got straight on the case because the children were allowed to go to the toilet again on the very next day.

So, I would say, don't bother even raising it with school, just tell the local authority and they will sort out out very quickly.

Original poster

JanetAndRoy · 16/01/2014 21:19

Wow. So many responses!
I'm going to email the school tonight and ask to see the Head tomorrow after school.

OP posts:

TheNightIsDark · 16/01/2014 21:23

Completely sympathise OP. DS(4) has bowel issues and can't hold on. He's soiled himself several times at school because he was too scared to ask to go/was scared of the toilets on his own etc.

I'd be sending a very angry email.

Amy106 · 16/01/2014 21:30

I am so sorry to hear what happened to your boys. I hope your meeting with the HT goes well.

DharmaLovesDraco · 16/01/2014 21:36

Bloody hell :( hope you and the boys are ok x

pointythings · 16/01/2014 22:11

I actually have huge problems with keeping all the boys in because the guilty one wouldn't own up. This is called collective punishment. Not only does it not work (because the guilty one is either too scared or doesn't care), it is also another of those things you can't do to adults (under the Geneva Convention) so why is it OK to do it to children?

Complain, complain, complain.

LynetteScavo · 16/01/2014 22:17

I'd be tempted to deliver the soiled pants to the HT!

Not allowing DC to use the toilet is not on.

If children are blocking the toilets, then supervision is required, not banning half the school from using the toilets. Are they understaffed?

pigletmania · 16/01/2014 22:45

Yanbu at all, totally unacceptable. They are not adults, surgeons or check out assistants, but children! Sometimes when you need to go, you need to go. I was denied the toilet when I was 6, I soiled myself. I still feel embarrassed some 30 years later. I thought this practice went out with the dinosaurs. I would have a meeting with the HT tomorrow!

pigletmania · 16/01/2014 22:48

I agree if you are not satisfied with HT response go to the LEA and ofstead, this is not ok

Thants · 16/01/2014 22:56

To those saying the children should be able to wait until break well they clearly can't! What is your solution? Just continue saying the 'should' be able to hold it whilst they poo themselves?

pigletmania · 16/01/2014 23:02

It dies not matter how long they have been toilet trained. Poor child could have had a tummy ache, when you need to go you need to go. I am sure you adults who have said they can wait, have been in that situation, it comes on suddenly sometimes. A poo is different to a wee, sometimes you have little or no control.

WilsonFrickett · 16/01/2014 23:04

Collective punishment is very poor IMO and I thought most schools now were focusing on positive behaviour management. It is not positive to not be allowed to go to the toilet due to the actions of unknown children!

Supercosy · 16/01/2014 23:08

I agree Wilson, I cannot bear collective punishment and this particular one is absoultely beyond the pale. You CANNOT just stop children going to the toilet because one child flooded them. There are all sorts of other things you can do but you can't do this!!!

M0naLisa · 16/01/2014 23:17

I can't believe some people are saying why couldn't they hold it.
It's hard enough for an adult to hold a poo in when you're desperate never mind a child. My DS2 has bowel problems. He's either loose or hard and if he's loose he has to go when he needs to go although school and his teacher know this. Ds2 though would hold it in and be in pain until he gets home. He's 7! I would be fuming with the school.

Naoko · 16/01/2014 23:18

Well they clearly couldn't hold on because they both soiled themselves. The difference with adults is that most adults, faced with a situation where they're not supposed to walk out and go to the loo, will usually defy that authority and do it anyway if the alternative is to poo themselves surrounded by thirty other people. A desparate 8 year old will not, and that's why this is wrong.

An 8 year old can reasonably be expected to hold on till a break in most cases, but common sense must be applied. We've all been in situations where we suddenly needed the loo right now. I think the 'ask them to wait until x reasonable time, let them go if they ask again/seem serious' policy described by teachers on this thread is reasonable. And collective punishment is right out, it doesn't work and in this case it's just stupid as well.

Andro · 16/01/2014 23:19

The thing that strikes me here is the double standard; the girls can go if they need to, but the boys can't.

Different treatment on the basis of gender is not okay, neither is long term punishment of the male half of the student body for the actions of one (I'm regarding the differential treatment as being long term punishment here).

pigletmania · 16/01/2014 23:23

I agree Andro, the gender divide is unacceptable, a meeting with the HT is needed and higher if needed

MiscellaneousAssortment · 17/01/2014 00:54

Really shocking. Imagine how your poor boys felt :(

Glad you taking it further

lookatmybutt · 17/01/2014 02:16

MrsOakenshield, I agree. My mum had a security guard friend who was only allowed to go to the loo at breaktimes and ended up hospitalised with a seriously impacted bowel as a result. Lucky for him, he was fine when they cleared him out (he was happy as Larry, the doctors took pictures of the result to share with their doctor pals). After that, he pooped whenever he felt the need to and all was well.

It also happened to a childhood friend of mine when he was about 7, but he doesn't know I know that. They wouldn't let him go to the loo at school as often as needed.

For anyone saying: 'well I HAVE to wait.' I dunno, bully for you and your impressively structured bowels I guess.

Why do I know so much about other peoples' bowels? LOL.

Original poster

JanetAndRoy · 17/01/2014 09:29

How much of a tit will I look quoting Geneva Convention IV Article 33 to the Head?!
Actually the collective punishment is an aside. I just want my boy to be happy and clean.

On further questioning (which had to be delicate as he is embarrassed and doesn't want me to talk to the school), the girls have been banned too. The flooding and graffiti was only in the boys loos though.

I might question the school's plumbing, supervision of facilities during break times and why a better system for allowing children out of class is not in place.

OP posts:

Finola1step · 17/01/2014 09:50

I've been teaching in primary schools for many years. Have been an assistant Head for 10 years now. All schools try to encourage the children to go to the loo at break times. But it just isn't possible for all children to need to go at the "right" time. Quite a few children need to go to the loo in the afternoon (having just eaten lunch, it's pretty obvious why).

When a child asks, most teachers ask if the child is able to wait for a bit. Usually it's a no. No problem.

It sounds like that your dc's school have backed themselves into a corner here. They have a big issue with the plumbing and got cross. Brought out the big guns (banning lesson time loo for all, stopping play) but it hasn't worked. No one has confessed. The school are now a bit stuck. It's a stale mate and they probably don't want to back down. All very silly and they shouldn't have brought out the big guns in the first place.

You have every right to be very concerned. If a child needs to go to the loo, they need to go. If it happens frequently, that's when we start taking notes of times and dates to discuss with parents.

And as for girls not being allowed to go, that's also unacceptable. Some girls at primary school do start their periods and will simply not want to use the loo when there are lots of others about at playtime and break.

Bloody awful procedures. Please let us know how it goes.

Original poster

JanetAndRoy · 17/01/2014 17:16

I was fobbed off with a message from the class teacher, who said my son asked once. If he'd asked twice he would have been allowed to go.
(My son says he asked once, was refused and was afraid to ask again.)

I've now been passed to the Deputy Head as I pointed out that the teacher was only enforcing a policy that is wrong, and that there are other systems that could be put in place that won't leave a child afraid to ask to go to the toilet.
Waiting to hear now.

OP posts:

MrsCakesPremonition · 17/01/2014 17:21

You might want to have a look at this site and print of any relevant bits. They have a lot of useful information about best practise for schools re: access to toilets.

treaclesoda · 17/01/2014 17:42

I was thinking about this last night after I posted. My initial reaction was indeed 'well, I thought it was normal to have to wait, that's what we had to do at school', but then as I thought about it I thought 'hang on, actually, I did wet myself at school and found it humiliating'. The more I thought about it, the more I realised that when I was at school (and I'm only 38) I just expected to be a bit humiliated on a regular basis, because that was the norm. Its not that my teachers were particularly horrible, or bullying, it was just that the whole school experience was so different back then. Things have changed so much, and on the whole I believe they have changed for the better. I'm so angry to think of the OPs poor boys and the embarassment they must have felt, I would really like to believe that situations like this were a thing of the past.

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