School Abscense Fine - huge amount

[PMDD]

If I am correct, if you take your child/ren out of school without prior agreement, there is an automatic fine of £60/day/child/parent?

So for us, a family with 3 children, a 2 week holiday in (say) June, would cost us £3600 - or double that if we don't pay within a certain amount of time!

Is it me to think that is totally unreasonable?!

That is a huge amount. The people who take their children out normally can't afford the hike in holiday prices, so how on earth would they afford the fine?

can anyone think of a law where one person alone makes the decision that ultimately could lead to that person being accused of breaking the law where there is no right of appeal? because that is what this law does. H/T decision. they say no that's it. no appeal, no review no nothing.

this! i have said it before but i cannot believe this is legal. how on earth can criminal fines be issued at the say so of a headteacher and without the right of appeal? no wonder tories want out of aspects of europe because then there is literally nowhere to go at all if your country makes up punitive actions like this without due process, without any real legal backing and without any governing body or overseeing and just declares it law?

to the HE'ers - i feel like i'm a spiritual home ed'er iyswim - i so would be if i could be because every instinct in me rebels against the levels of control being seized by the state over my child's life and development and it's sense of entitlement to march it's dirty boots into my life and wipe them where it pleases.

But wanting a week off is not turning up persistently late,they're two entirely different things.

Being 10 mins late 10 times in a year, whcih can be caused by all kinds of things, especially if you live a commute away, is in my view much less calculated and serious and disruptive to education than taking a week out of school for a cheap foreign holiday. At my DD's school they spend the first 10 mins on roll call etc, and then go into dance around assembly, so don't miss much if slightly late. How does missing 100 minutes of school due to lateness equate to missing over 30 hours due to being taken on holiday? But the fines are the same.

There are three types of absenteeism: 1) one or 2 week holiday only, 2) repeated lateness and 3) frequent illness's.

The latter have the biggest impact on learning. I know people who cough and they don't go to school for days. This is far more disruptive for the child. Being late everyday affects the class as the children stop and see who it is, watch them putting bag away, get bored by teacher explaining stuff etc etc.

A one off week away (primary level) is not the end of the world, IMO.

If one day of absence (or being 10 minutes late) is fined at £120 (or £240 if paid later) there is going to be a big increase in bankruptcies. Isn't that something like 2 weeks of jobseeker's allowance? Or approx 3 full days' work if low paid. It's completely disproportionate for the non-rich.

So do logged lates get fined too?

tiggy the thing is has anyone explained to the parents what is the procedure and what the can do if they don't agree?
Most people don't even know where is the money going to. I know a lot of people think it's the school who keeps the money!!

If the HT makes the decision, then there should also a system for the parents to say they don't agree other than disputing the fine. Then it's too late. What you are talking about is disputing the need to pay whereas you should be able to dispute the fact that it is actually OK to take your dc out of school for X reason.
But for that, you need an independent board and a real definition of what constitute 'exceptional circumstances'. Neither exist.
And how earth can something that has NEVER been defined can be seen as a criminal offense... Mind boggles....

Dromedary some schools are already getting shitty about children being out of school to attend a SALT appointment for example....

Retro I think that they can if the HT decides to do so....

Imagine if you were to loose a week pay (because that's what £120 would be for some parents) because you are late at work one day....
Or loosing a week pay for being off one day in the month because your boss has decided that actually you weren't really ill....

I am wondering how that would stand in front of a tribunal tbh

As usual, it's the poor who are most disadvantaged by this. The rich will be able to buy the right to holiday when they want.

And, if their children are at private school, have 17 weeks to do it, with four of those weeks being cheaper than the price we have to pay.

I would have thought the fine was aiming to prevent children from incurring the disadvantage of missing school.

it is the HTs decision - they decide if the parent should be fined the LA then does the fining - the LA does not do the deciding.

i just want to apologise for my earlier assumption that lone parents can't homeschool unless independently wealthy.

it has just massively hit home that actually, yes, there probably IS a way i could do this with enough creativity, bravery and financial sacrifice and if i reached out to enough people and came up with enough reciprocal arrangements....

this thread has had a massive impact on me and i am now seriously considering deregistering my child from school next year. i absolutely do not want to be part of this whole stazi state thing - i do not accept a HT has the authority to make decisions over our lives or decide i'm a criminal and i am utterly horrified to hear teachers actually saying that they have the right to force a child to do SATs against their parents wishes with impunity.

obviously i already had a lot of concerns over the quality and worth of my son's education but it all seems to have crystalised now.

so HE'ers that i said were wrong to say i could HE i do apologise and having done a bit of research and thinking about how much it is worth to me i realise that there must be a way.

bonsoir sick kids, long term, are only provided with around 8hrs if they're lucky of education by the state and that is considered full time and adequate. yet children who miss a few days to go and visit family and take part in what is to that family an important occasion are considered to have been massively disadvantaged by missing those few days?

it doesn't add up.

imo it describes it adequately. clearly your opinion is different.

i'm far more offended by the idea of parents being criminalised based on the unilateral decision of a headteacher without the right to appeal and without clearly defined criteria than i am by an adjective. likewise massively offended by a state that thinks it has the right to assess 6yos against the will of their parents in order to compile data that a significant proportion of the actual profession thinks worthless anyway.

different strokes and all that. you're more than entitled to your opinion.

if the deal really now is sign over absolute control of your child and your life or 'teach them yourself' i will choose the latter. i didn't realise it had come to that but i guess i hadn't kept up with developments in primary schools.

when my DC school refused for very serious reasons for 8 months we had about 30 hours of tuition in 8 months - there was a 3 month waiting list for that, and this was in GCSE years - double standards??

The teacher they sent had no clue on how to get him through his GCSEs.

there is still this big issue where people keep saying "its not the h/t that fines them" when it is the h/t who solely decides not the governors whether leave is granted or not. there is no right of appeal to the governors. they have no right to overturn or interfere with the h/t decision. the h/t in deciding to refuse if the leave then still happens has to report this to LEA. I am sorry but maybe teachers and h/t haven't yet realised that Mr Gove has yet again done them up like kippers! if they authorise too many then Ofsted gets them for it. if they refuse then they will be over run with disgruntled parents. hardly conducive to providing a good education is it. the system before worked. this new one will do nothing to reduce hard core absence from parents whose kids miss a day or two a week.

mummy is right, I flexi schooled one of mine, without school consent for a term, because until attendance goes below 80% I know they do nothing, there are genuine reasons for this - it wasn't a fly by night decision, however due to the new govt interference the school felt unable to grant flexi schooling.

Now I am not a feckless parent who just decided this - but if I was there would still have been nothing they could have done about it.

there is still this big issue where people keep saying "its not the h/t that fines them" when it is the h/t who solely decides not the governors whether leave is granted or not. there is no right of appeal to the governors. they have no right to overturn or interfere with the h/t decision.
and
if they authorise too many then Ofsted gets them for it.

That is exactly the reason why HT can not be the people to say Yay or nay to the leave. They are tied up on that subjects with Ofsted etc... which means they are likely to reject what should be an exceptional circumstances because of their fear of Osfted. And no one can argue back because there is no list of what is considered as an exceptional circumstances.

Of course, personal cases are always complex but some sort of general list would be quite helpful to at least give some guidance and limits.

I think the rules are sometimes seen as being applied unfairly though. I live in a very ethnically diverse area, some of my ds's mates are away abroad visiting extended family for 3 - 4 weeks every year and this is allowed for their cultural development. I don't have a problem with that by the way but think that the needs of all families should be considered on an individual basis and not just a hammer to crack a nut approach applied. The family in the news do seem to have needed this time together and I feel sorry for them.