to give up ANOTHER degree

[Objection]

background: I went straight from sixth form to a volunteering position in Africa and then went on to work in various office jobs.

In 2011 I took a part time job in an office at a University and started a full time degree at another university nearby in Media & Sociology. After 2 weeks the hour commute between work and lectures was killing me (i worked a half day, every day) so I switched to attend the University I was working at studying BA Sociology instead (I wanted to do Psychology but it was full).

I despised both the course and my job and then got hit by a car (as you do) and had to take some time out. This gave me chance to have a think and shortly afterwards I quit both.

Taking another job at the University, this one being Full Time and in a much nicer department, I enrolled on a Psychology degree with the Open University (my OH is also studying with them and we both rated them highly). I much prefer the subject and also means I can progress onto Clinical Psychology which is what I wanted in the 1st place.

I felt pretty stupid though as this was now the 3rd university I had been to.

However, I now work in a very stressful office job full time (a high level role but not management) and work in London as a weekend Nanny most weekends.

My motivation skills are poor (and clearly my attention span is too) and I am battling with an ever increasing depression and anxiety disorder as I struggle to fit study around 60+ working hours a week.

I have worked out that by quitting my office job and starting yet another degree at a brick and mortar university I could bring home £370 a week at least by studying the degree full time, working most weekends and fitting in the odd temp nanny job during the holidays.

This would give me 5 days a week extra to study and the contact time with the university would most likely increase my motivation.

I'm also confident I will be allowed to start in year 2 as I have already completed a lot of credits. so I would finish the degree a year earlier.

but I would be accumulating a lot (£25000) of student debt and would be hugely embarrassed to be changing routes AGAIN

AIBU to change universities for the 4th time?

I would not worry about the two degrees you briefly started but didn't finish for personal reasons. In relation to your current degree it sounds like you are basically carrying on with the same subject but transferring your OU credits to another university and starting in the second year there. I think this is fine. Simply spin it (if anyone asks) that you loved the subject so much you wanted it to include actual lectures / meet other students and tutors at a bricks and mortar university. I think this looks like you are very committed to the subject and I think this must happen fairly often with OU.

I have to say I would work as little as you can get away with financially in order to concentrate on your studies though.

Objection I think the point is not that lots of careers aren't hard to get into, but this particular one can be emotionally and psychologically draining on top of that, and you have to be able to commit to long-term study and goals to achieve it. That includes a good deal of self-study (uni is like that too) as well as placements which you may have to travel to and you are unlikely to be able to continue nannying during the clin psych phase (although it is paid, so this may not be an issue).

I'm not saying you can't do it, people are just trying to make sure you are realistic about what you are trying to achieve, given you say you have motivation issues and seem to find it hard to step back from your existing schedule (which I couldn't hack by the way).

I didn't think the OU course was accredited? Forgive me if I'm wrong, I'm sure you know better than I do!

If you want to do ClinPsych then you need to focus. It's a fantastic job, well worth pursuing but you have to prove in blood and sweat that you are absolutely 100% committed to it. I know people who broke their backs in their first degree 9 years later still aren't in the doctorate. The only person I know who got in (by the skin of her teeth) already had a PhD and a ton of experience. She does love it though and considers it worth it. So I'm not trying to put you off, just to say you have to go all guns blazing.

a PhD is a doctorate of philosophy. A PhD in a Psychology topic and a Clinical Psychology doctorate are not the same thing.

A masters isn't necessary for clinical psychology either.

A PhD is a doctorate. They're the same thing. Nobody is suggesting a doctorate in a non-clinical-psychology topic is the same as one in a clinical psychology topic, but 'doctorate' is just another word for 'PhD'.

I meant to highlight clinical psychology doctorate not just doctorate sorry!

I'm not disputing that a PhD is a doctorate. I saying that to be a Clinical psychologist you don't do a PhD but do a specific clinical psychology doctorate (where you train with uni and the nhs)

I wouldn't worry about the doctorate just yet:)

I would be on the phone to the admissions of the institution clarifying the entrance requirements for the course you want, and seeing whether they would accept your OU modules (I suspect not) and if not, if you are likely to get in the first year (these courses are often massively oversubscribed but they are often more flexible with mature students). Have a chat with them, otherwise you can't make decisions if this isn't an option.

Ok, ok ... all I was trying to say was, I'm fairly sure that's what whois was talking about and she's only trying to help.

I'm not clear why it matters what you call it, the issue is, can you get to that stage working like this? Because you will knacker yourself and you've already got a lot more training to do.

And, getting a plan in place to sort out the anxiety/depression, starting with reducing your working hours. If you are late for every assignment, you may risk not completing the course, I have students who have difficulties and the ones who tend not to complete are the ones who let the deadlines pile up around them and then end up missing exams/coursework, not the ones who plod away and don't get spectacular marks but do get the work done.

There is lots of support for mh issues at universities through wellbeing services and other support though.

personally, I think you need to decide if you are the sort of person who can get a degree and a doctorate, both require a lot of self study and self motivation. Like you, I'm a bright person who is great at directed work, but I found uni hard, because even when you are there, most is left up to you. I ended up with a 2.2, I don't think that reflects my ability, but my work ethic when left to my own devices.

If you aren't the sort of person who can make themselves do the work needed to get at least a 2.1, is this something you want to do? I would work on the motivation thing, it's telling you say even if you gave up the weekend work you wouldn't spend that studying on your OU degree because your DP would be there and you'd find other things to do. Put bluntly, will you waste your days in the week if you gave up FT work too? It's not good enough to just go to lectures and tutorials, you have to be motivated to be studying before and after, and fellow students will only be a push for you if you happen to make friends with people who are more diligent than you.

Sorry if that's sounds insulting, but it's best to be realistic about what you can achieve, not just what you want to have. I'm the sort of person you give me 1 hours worth of work and tell me it needs turning round in 50 minutes, I'll give it you back with 5 minutes to spare and it'll look like I'm very efficient. But give me 1 hours worth of work and tell me I've got a month to do it and I'm going to be needing an extension. I play to my strengths and have a job in a fast paced environment, lots of people hate working in my industry, because everything is needed now - whereas that suits my way of working/thinking. I would love to go back to uni and do additional study, and I'd love to have an MA, but I know I'd hate doing an MA (and probably wouldn't finish it).

That said, you are a different person, you are also probably a different person to the one who started that very first degree, if you want to try if you can change your way of working, I'd give up the weekend work, but tell yourself your OU degree is your weekend job, force yourself to be up, out of the house and in the local library when it opens on Saturday morning (9?) until it closes, allow yourself only 1 hour max for lunch. Don't try to work from home and don't plan to do things with your DP. If you can keep that up between now and Easter, then possibly it would be worth giving up your FT job to get the degree. But if you can't focus for one solid day a weekend, then you might be giving up your secure job for something that you can't achieve, no matter how much you want to.

Sweetheart, it sounds like you're simply trying to do too much! Working all those hours and trying to study on top... anyone would struggle, however vibrant and feisty they were.

I do think you might have a lot more fun if you go to uni full time Monday to Friday and then work weekends. And life should be fun, particularly when you are young. Psychology is a fascinating subject, and I think you'll do better at the course if you give yourself a chance to focus on it, which in turn will be good for your longer term prospects. It's not just about the money that graduates earn, but about giving yourself the opportunity to have an amazing experience of exploring the subject.

dontmindifido - thank you, very sound advice. One of my worries is that my weekday job is very overwhelming. It is stressful and comes with potentially long hours. The weekend work is almost like a wind-down for me, with the added benefit of earning extra money. I think that if I was to quit the weekend job and do the study at the weekends i would also need to find a less demanding week job.

I find it odd you're stressing the fact that for clinical psychology the PhD has to be in psychology. The same is true of most subjects, so most physicists with PhDs have their PhD in physics etc. Very few people actually do PhDs in philosophy, most of them do them in their career subject.
I'd go for whichever option will help most towards your career path and not bankrupt you in the process. As you are on mumsnet are you planning to have kids as well? Young kids and studying don't go together well which is one disadvantage of the degree then PhD then stressful job option

PhD= shorthand for 'doctor of philosophy'. 'PhD' means exactly the same as 'doctorate'

I have a PhD/doctorate but know absolutely nothing about philosophy: my doctorate is in Cell Biology. Likewise other people have Phd/doctorates in Physics, Economics, English Literature, Ecology… or indeed Clinical Psychology.

Confusingly, however, you do NOT need a doctorate to qualify as a medical doctor.

To do a PhD/doctorate in ANY subject you need to do very well in your BSc/BA degree (preferably get a 1st) and show yourself to be very highly motivated and well organised. Otherwise no-one is likely to fund you.

www.ucl.ac.uk/dclinpsy/applying

You need a Doctorate in Clinical Psychology to be a clinical psychologist, this is a specific training course with specialities in each year similar to that of medical professionals.

You need at least a good 2:1 and preferably a first, plus 1-2 years experience, plus it is hard to get in anyway.

But I don't see that as a major problem for the OP, because there are lots of other things you could do with a psychology degree if she gets to the end and doesn't want to train/continue down this road. I mean, it's not more disadvantaged subject-wise than most other subjects.

I scraped my way through my first degree full time aged 18-21. Didn't like the subject any more- didn't have any better ideas (for things to do) though and I liked the social life. So grimly stuck it out to the end scraping a 3rd. My Masters was a subject I work in and genuinely find interesting so despite working full time and making an international move during the two years I managed to breeze a distinction in it. Didn't feel anywhere near as much of a slog as the degree did.

It's easier to find study motivation for a subject you enjoy. Ignore the false-starts but be honest with yourself over what you have to give up to make space to do the workload.

Well another option would be talking to your current employer, could you go down to 3 or 4 days a week or part time? (any new mums due to return to work soon who might be intersted in a job share? You could sound them out first and take 'a solution' to your boss).

I don't think it's impossible, but you will have to change your mindset. Being in a physical uni isn't what's going to be the bit that helps, but perhaps the adding structure to your study time would. In that case, you could make changes to add structure now . It doesn't sound like you work well without a tight framework.

I think the op may be trying to highlight the slightly different terminology used; the course she's ultimately aiming for is referred to as the DClinPsy, rather than a PhD, follows a specific structure and is funded by the NHS. Still obviously a doctorate, though.

For what it's worth, I have a first class Psychology degree; however, I think I'll struggle to find the paid experience I'd need to apply for the DClinPsy - even once DD is older. You do sound like that's not a problem for you, so that's one box ticked.

Having studied at a bricks and mortar university and the OU, for me, I found the OU a lot less stressful. That's my personal preference, however. I also put a lot of pressure on myself, but that means I self organise and put the hours in without needing the external structure to push me into studying (though it's still all too easy to be distracted by the internet, etc!). I have always set myself a v gruelling schedule that I don't recommend to others, but the degree is doable - provided you have the motivation. I definitely think it's worth speaking to people at both the OU and the university you're interested in to get as much info as you can before making a decision.

Either way you're doing far too much at the moment and have your anxiety to contend with as well. You need to be kind to yourself as you have a huge workload and are clearly v stressed. That being said, ultimately, the motivation and drive to succeed must come from within - even with great external support.

Good luck

Clinical Psychology and Counselling Psychology are slightly different.

Clinical Psychology tends to help people with specific mental illness whereas Counselling Psychology is more aimed at "day to day" issues such as work, relationships etc.
Its a lot more complex than that and they overlap a lot but thats the most simple explanation.

buffy's advice sounds spot on.

A destination, not a journey person

Buffy That is genius! I am a destination person but have never seen it written so simply. Will use this phrase next time dh asks me why I can't just enjoy our (really very nice) life but instead spend my time making complicatd plans for the future.

Op - is there any way you can transfer the OU work you have already done into something material - a certificate or something? Sorry - I know nothing OU but it seems a same to not get anything out of your hard work.

I have done study alongside full time work. It is difficult at the best of times. 60 hours a week of work plus study is ridiculous. You will kill yourself. It may be that if you cut down your work hours then the OU will suddenly be a lot more enjoyable.