AIBU to feel sick of being "secretly" poor.

[Fedupputtingonabraveface]

I know IABU to start with but please hear me out I just can't take much more.

DH is a farmer and it's a very stressful lifestyle. Things used to be good, but he moved absolute heaven and earth to buy his "dream" house 4 years ago and it's been a fucking nightmare ever since. He absolutely has to have the facade on that he's got a nice car and nice house and is doing well for himself and I can't take much more of it. I have been out of work since my eldest was born in 2004 and when it comes to careers and trying to redeem something of a working life to help contribute, I'm flogging a dead horse as I am of no use to anyone or anything. DH hates the thought of me working and although our youngest starts school this year me trying to find work is a bit of a sore point to him and causes huge friction. But that's a different story.

Anyway, his business although is affluent on paper, is costing us a fortune and we literally have NOTHING to live on as every penny he earns is ploughed back into the business and his debts. We are taking HUNDREDS of thousands of pounds to dozens of companies from BT to the Inland Revenue. There is a lot of money, property and land involved so the scale is huge.

For the last for years we live off his "wage" of £12k a year and this is for our family of 5. He absolutely insists on being extravagant with the children so that they do not know how poor we are. For example they all had luxury items for Christmas. It's ridiculous I know, but he's very firm about this. He believes that they are brought up to never need or want for anything. Not something I believe but at the end of the day what he says goes.

We have leaks, guttering falling down around our ears, broken windows, mould, holes developing in the roof Paint coming off the doors, and any day now our phone will be cut off again (it is cut off every time it's due) all of our furnishings are so old and battered we couldn't even sell them to raise money.

Obviously because on paper he makes a decent living we have no benefits. However and I realise that this is terrible, I still receive child benefit because if I didn't then we wouldn't eat some weeks. He lives in both stress and denial about our situation and I feel like he's a time bomb waiting to go off. I simply don't think I can live like this any more. I hate our house because of what it has brought us and he constantly insists change is around the corner.

AIBU to be terrified about the future? I feel I can't leave because if I left I would have nothing to go to. I wouldn't receive any help, any benefits, or anything to get me back into work because apparently we live an affluent lifestyle.

I feel if I stay things are just going to get worse. I am so unhappy and i can't speak to him about it because it ends in blazing rows.

I absolutely hate my life right now. I've just had to cancel a long awaited dental appointment because I can't afford the petrol and the money to pay for it. I'm supposed to be going away with friends in a few weeks and am thinking up excuses as to why I can't go already.

Please understand I am not trying to drip feed here and I am not boasting about what size of house we live in. I know this is confused and muddled but I really am desperate and very upset. I haven't been able to pay my own bills since before Christmas and they've now added up and are due tomorrow but I have to make the choice between paying them or buying food.

I can't carry on. Yet I have to be happy joyful and jolly for the world around me.

You poor thing, this sounds horrendous. Clearly DH's approach is not sustainable and can only lead to trouble. Not sure how you go about addressing it, but sooner the better.

YANBU. He may enjoy his delusion of an affluent lifestyle but it's very wrong to inflict it on you. Start being honest with people. If he doesn't like the knowing the truth, that's really his problem and not yours.

If u left u would be entitled to some benefits as u would be unemployed. If u are getting sick with stress maybe u need to think about planning to leave eventually. It sounds like a stressful life and he isn't on your team. He need to work with u to sort it out. If it comes to the point there is no food for the kids then u would be motivated to act but why does he have to let it get that way. It does not matter if he does not want u to work. Find out about childcare and childminders and have a look what u could do. No one can stop u working if u have childcare. Then if it all goes wronger. U are not without means to look after yourself. Working might even make everything a lot better and save ur marriage

£12k is below breadline stuff, how are you funding an "affluent" lifestyle? Dividends? Debt?
What would constitute "turning the corner"? Lump sum?

Right - go and make a cup of tea - I'm afraid you are going to need it.

Go on, I'll wait...

First things first. Go get a pen and pad and write down your have to pays - mortgage/rent, council tax, utilities. These you have to pay - no negotiation.

Now write down your not so importants - credit cards, loans, etc. These you have to pay but the amount can be negotiated.

Now write down your living costs. Food, petrol, clothes, kids stuff etc.

Now, take a deep breath and get on the telephone to your creditors and explain. I've done this and I found that 100% they were sympathetic and happy to help me as long as I was honest. You will have to be completely honest with them and don't overestimate what you can afford to pay as this will be your one chance.

Next - make DH a cup of tea and have a Serious Word. It's all well and good the kids having iPads etc, but that's not going to keep them warm or fed.

Chin up, bite the bullet and speak to people. It's really, really horrible at first but it feels much better when it's done. I promise.

You might want this moved to relationships as there's a lot of information over there about benefits and so on (might be here too).

I'm sorry, I am also feeling the pinch in Jan, and will have to wait til Feb to pay some bills. It is really stressful.

I think there are two other issues here-your husband seems to do what he wants despite you, and that you can't tell anyone else. You could get in touch with one of the debt charities and talk it through (Payplan if you have existing debts, or one of the free money management ones).

You are probably entitled to some benefits in your current situation, though, I'm fairly sure that's a low income, and if you moved out, you would definitely be entitled to housing benefit and some benefit income if you weren't working and were looking after the children. You seem quite uninformed about how these things work and I think arming yourself with information may help your anxiety enormously.

www.gov.uk/benefits-adviser

That all sounds very stressful, and not quite right....

How are you not "poor on paper" ie what stops you getting benefits? Where does that paper profit go? And why do you owe hundreds of thousands of pounds to HMRC if you have not been making a large taxable profit? You can't generally make a large taxable profit without actually having a large profit.

I think you need financial advice. Is it possible that your DH has a secret bank account with the actual profits in it? (Sorry to ask).

And- be honest, I am about the fact we are financially struggling. So are lots of people. I don't think us all pretending really helps. I don't tell everyone, but a couple of close friends know how bad its been. Secrets are horrible- do turn to your friends, about your marriage, your dilemmas and your worries if you can, you may find they have suspected all along.

We've been here, and are still slightly here at the moment. Farming is shit right now. And I totally get the DH denial thing, it took me about seven years to talk sense into mine.

Lady Flumpalot's list looks good to me.

Also you may actually be entitled to some benefits, self employed people are, based on last year's income.

Poor you that sounds awful.

I do think though that if you haven't already you need to get an accountant to look over all of this. It sounds to me as if there are masses of things he should be declaring as business expenses which he is not thus making it look as if he's making a large profit when he should be declaring either a loss or just a minimal profit. This could impact on what you're able to claim. I know it may seem like an expense you can't afford at the moment but if you haven't already done it a professional looking over everything may actually save you money in the long run. If he's not done his tax declaration yet (deadline end of this month) this may be a good time to do it.

Sorry if I'm talking out of my behind and you've already done this

Hi

I have a lot of sympathy for you.

But you are wrong to say you are useless and of no practical contribution. If there is a job out there that you could do, apply for it as soon as the little one starts school. Without rowing with your husband be blunt about the reality of the financial situation and don't let him put you down if you want to get a job. that's dangerously controlling. Get your own bank account and start putting a bit into it, if you can get a job.

If you truly can't, can you do some DIY at home? Freecycle sometimes has paint etc which you could use to smarten up whatever parts of the house you can improve without the aid of a professional. Small acts like this don't make a huge difference, but might help you feel more in control.

Can you make an appointment with CAB to talk about the problems, so that you at least know where you stand?

And are there any ways you could raise a bit of money - could you take in foreign students or a lodger to bring in cash?

Sorry I can't come up with solid foolproof suggestions to help - these are tiny drops in the ocean, but I do know from personal experience that life is much easier when you have some control over income, however small that income is, especially if you live with a man who is controlling/ostrich-like around money.

Do you owe money to a bank, if so can you see someone there about better management of money/repayment of debt? Sounds like you need professional help to restructure your finances.
Have you pointed out to your OH that given the description of your home, your children will probably soon realise that you're not very well off? There's no need for him to encourage the fantasy for their sake.

If he's only taking a salary of 12K then you should be entitled to benefits regardless, surely? Even if the turnover of the company is millions, that doesn't matter if it is documented that any profits are being spent legitimately on business expenses...

Just read Flumpalot's list. That's really good advice.

If his yearly accounts say that his profit (and therefore his earnings) is 12K then you should be getting child tax credits. Surely he is honest with his accountant even if he is playing 'The Big I Am' with family and friends. Ask for a copy of his tax return and if it tallies put in a joint claim and have it paid to your account, never to his business account.
Your post strikes a chord with me because it has similarities with our own situation following a really misjudged decision to expand my dh's business in 2006. However we were both guilty of doing the ostrich thing for a few years. We got real in 2011, planned our escape and finally walked away (luckily debt free and still solvent) last summer.
Much smaller house, no posh cars here. May not have much but what we do have is ours.
Unfortunately you have to convince your DH that you're on quicksand which I didn't need to do. Will he listen to anyone?

Yes how are you not in receipt of working tax benefits?

Would your bank manager do a home visit or the accountant and spell it out to him in black and white?

You say 'what he says goes'. Why?
Your current situation is untenable and will probably result in family breakdown. You need to sit him down and spell it out firmly and calmly.

Amazing advice from ladyflumpalot. It took me 3 years to get this across to my sister. She is now almost debt free and managing her finances much better.

You poor thing having all the stress and worry whike your DH is living a champagne lifestyle on a lemonade budget. Is your DH in charge of the finances, if so he must know the extent of the debt he is in. You must have an accountant could you have a chat with him/herand ask them to have a wake up call talk with DP?

From his point of view he is investing in his business, having some cash flow issues, etc etc.

From your point of view you are living in poverty and you are terrified of the debt.

I would be like you. I just don't have the temperament to run a business with my personal assets in that way. And who knows if it will turn the corner. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. But I don't have that appetite for risk. Presumably Mrs Richard Branson does (or did, in the early days of their marriage). You often hear successful business types say how hard and scary it was at the beginning. I sure he thinks that is where he is right now. But you have no confidence that it will work out, and the short-term cost is too high.

I would put it in language he can understand. Tell him that the cash flow for household debts is too tight and you need him to refinance in some way to ease that up. If he says, he can't borrow any more, tell him that he has over extended and you are not sure that the business is ever going to take off in a way that will support this level of debt. In which case, you two need to do a careful tactical reduction of debt, before interest rates go up and you get caught in a fire sale.

If you left, then you would be entitled to benefits - it would all be based on your income, not his.

Sorry it takes ages to type on this thing! Many other posts with good advice above.
As much as I love and have loved DH for the past 30 years, our 'getting real' did involve me making it very clear that our DC were my absolute priority, that I did not care about what his family or his mates thought, I only cared about getting out of the shit with the DC. I also started retraining for a new career on the basis that if I HAD to leave to give the DC and myself a stable peaceful life with less stress, I would be equipped to. Think that shook things up more than anything!

you sound very defeated and seem like you have given up - im wondering why your dh choices trump yours? it sounds like the balance of power in the entire relationship is with him.

you must make some kind of stand - with - or without him on board. Why does what he say goes where the kids presents are concerned? why are your views not taken on board, with regards to getting a job?

if i were you i would make an appt with the CAB. They can get you in touch with debt advisors.
i would write down everything you owe and to whom. i did this a few weeks ago and it was a shock.....and a wake up call.
we decided to take a loan to get rid of all debt that was floating about and that looked like it was in danger of never getting paid off....at least now we have an end in sight - sooner if we can manage to overpay the loan.

we are both working full time and just really needed to get a grip.

your dh needs to take his head of out of the clouds and see the reality.
have you talked to him about possibly down sizing if you had a comfortable lifestyle before the house move?
you need the advice of someone who can sit and look at your money situation.

Yes he may also be entitled to working tax credit too on account of his low income. DH was entitled to about 50 quid a week.
I had that going straight into my account as well. Take no hostages!

Ladyflumpalot has given you some stirling advice there - could i just add, if you go to "the national debt line" website, you will find an online budget sheet there, that helps you work out pro-rata amounts to pay to non-priority creditors. The HMRC are most definately a priority but they are flexible if you talk talk them and make them aware you are struggling. You may well be entitled to help with your debts in terms of a debt management plan (we hve one of these) You need to have £100 a month free and multiple creditors - This pretty much saved my life! (im not exaggerating, I was in a bad way). There are other things too that can help you, depending on circumstances and level of debt. This cannot continue like this - you need to make your DH aware he risks losing everything.

Is it practical for you to get a job? It would help so much, why can't he see this?

Why aren't you getting tax credits if your income is only 12k after expenses? you are entitled to help - it was not claiming this benefit after DD was born that got us into deep shit - please look into this, you can still claim it if you are self employed.

I know how shite this is - but there is help out there, you are not alone