to think that being deaf is not a disability?

[manicinsomniac]

I have a friend who is deaf. Her child is also deaf. Her child's father is not deaf.

My friend has a rich and diverse life among the deaf community. BSL is her first language (she also lip reads and is oral) and she feels most at home when using it. She works, she goes out, she watches tv/films, she volunteers and in general has a perfectly normal life, bar the fact that 85-90% of her time is spent with other deaf people. She feels that being able to hear would make her life worse (I can't pretend to understand but I accept what she says - stuff about never being able to experience peace and total focus, not have the ability to make instant friends with others because of a huge commonality, a loss of identity as a part of a very special community etc). She loves being deaf and it is who she is.

She doesn't even use terms like 'hearing loss', she calls it 'deaf gain'.

Her child is 9 and in a deaf unit within a mainstream school. Her ex partner wants the child to have a cochlear implant (I think that's what it is - an operation that would vastly improve the child's hearing anyway) but my friend is very against it as she feels it will take the child out of the community in which they belong and not properly make them a member of any other community. I don't know what the child wants, they are confused and trying to please both parents I think.

Most people have criticised my friend saying things along the lines of, 'why wouldn't you want to cure your child's disability' 'why not make a disabled child's life easier?' etc. I think they are wrong to think in those terms.

AIBU to think that being deaf is not a disability but in fact just a different language and culture?

'deaf gain' doesn't even make grammatical sense, surely it would be 'deafness gain' if opposite of hearing loss?

It does make sense. 1) There is no exact sign for D/deaf ness and 2) what on earth is "deafness gain" anyway?

There is no sign for deafness? How about Englishness, or other ness words?

Whether or not you think it makes sense in English, 'Deaf gain' makes perfect sense in BSL! And I am pretty sure she isn't really talking about not being able to hear, the gain is her language, culture and Deaf identity. It's really difficult to understand if you have no experience of the Deaf community but many people are truly happy and proud of how their Deafness has shaped their lives - that is Deaf with a capital 'D', hearing loss is a very different life experience. You're right, MrsDV, I remember the white hot fury in the room when a CI Specialist gave a presentation to my Deaf and hearing colleagues 15 years ago, all that historical baggage was stirred up. But time has shown that CIs aren't a cure - they will change the Deaf community but not eradicate it.

Is it still the case nowadays that you can't take part in jury service if you're deaf? I know it was true only a few years back.

There are ways to express deaf ness in BSL, sure, but afaik there is not an exact sign. There is a sign for deaf ened and I've seen two ways of expressing "hard of hearing". Englishness, I think you'd have to explain what was meant by that in BSL.

I take your point about the deaf community and culture that some with no hearing choose to be part and proud of.

However, personally, I find your thread title is very fucking offensive and simplistic.

One of my DCs is profoundly deaf in one ear. Even with one working ear he is dis abled when taking part in so many activities typically developing children and their parents take for granted. He is affected deeply - physically and emotionally.

Get yourself on to the NDCS website and educate yourself a bit more before such big generalisations.

LCHammer BSL doesn't follow the grammatical structure of English, it is more conceptual. So English word endings such as -ness don't feature in BSL. Hard to explain but as a visual language it functions in a totally different way to English.

I do not doubt that deaf people have a rich, supportive community and can lead happy fulfilling lives.

but not being able to hear is a disability.

i have an artificial leg, i don't call it 'prosthetic gain' no matter how many brave inspiring amputees i meet.

Is it still the case nowadays that you can't take part in jury service if you're deaf? I know it was true only a few years back.

It depends. If you're a CI/HA user with good auditory pick up, I don't think you'd be automatically excluded. Someone who requires communication support to access what is said would be excluded, I think, owing to the rules about additional people (ie, interpreter/STTR) not being allowed in the jury room.

I have hearing loss in both ears, my left worse than my right. I have one hearing aid. Maybe when I am older I will be totally deaf like my mother. I wouldn't say I have a disability but it is bloody frustrating. I tried to speak to T-Mobile customer service today using my mobile phone and I really couldn't clearly hear what the operator was saying even though I explained my predicament so I gave up.

Making decisions for a child whether right or wrong is something parents have to do. When her child is old enough it will be the child who may challenge the Mother's reasons for not allowing a cochlear implant. However not integrating into the whole community isn't a good thing either.

charitygirl What about the deaf people who do class their hearing impairment as a disability? Within the original post OP doesn't say "to think that being deaf doesn't always make you disabled", it says "to think that being deaf is not a disability".

I am fully aware that there are people who live their life with a hearing impairment and do not class themselves as disabled and wouldn't want to be by other people but on the other hand you have an entire different case with people who do, people who struggle and to dismiss them as not having a disability is in my opinion hugely dismissive of some of the struggles they overcome everyday.

To generalize such a massive and varied group of people is to me uneducated and ignorant.

Possibly OP should spend some time with the people who live with it and do class it as a disability. Maybe she could see the other side of the coin where people don't cope quite as well as her friend and see if she can still dismiss them as not being disabled.

OP, massively insensitive, poorly worded and ignorant on so many levels. Your post is inflammatory.

I'm a parent of a hearing impaired child and there is so much I will never understand first hand about how she perceives her world, learns, copes, listens, interacts with those around her etc. I also have a lot of friends who are deaf or have deaf children - but I would NEVER ask a ridiculous question that assumes a one size fits all answer.

I don't understand what business of yours it is to label your friend or anyone else disabled or not. Take an interest, for sure - but don't assume to wrap up an answer in a post. Your friend and her family have a complex issue that does not have a clear answer and is hugely personal to them.

Being deaf or being a parent of a deaf child can be so very complex, challenging and unique. I think you have much to learn.

YABU.

And as for comments as sweeping as 'deaf people can enjoy music through vibrations' - uh comments like this just make me angry. Unless you have first hand experience of a hearing loss please don't apply such broad and tidy solutions to being deaf.

I'm 80% deaf and wear bi-lateral aids. My DD is hearing. I sign to level one, but want to learn more. I was offer cochlear implants, but refused. Its a very personal choice. The child should be able to decide.

It is a language and culture as well as a disability.

deaf people I have represented are massively disadvantaged in court system. a lot of important environments cater poorly or not at all for the deaf.

I think one of the things parents should do is give children the opportunity to make choices as an adult as to how they live their life. Someone may decide to spend virtually all of their time in the deaf community and thus lack of hearing is not an issue. But someone may also decide to fall in love with a hearing person and spend a lot of time with hearing people. Children should be able to make these choices as adults

And I do not think the OP is at all insensitive. Those saying this do not understand the context of the deaf community and that this is a pov of some deaf people.

Children can't make the choice to hear once they're an adult. The CIs work best if done before the age of 4, maybe later, but not a whole lot later (unless the ear has been stimulated meanwhile with hearing aids). You can't leave such a massive decision for a child. It's too late. You have to be the adult and make the decision for them. Why would you want to limit their world for the sake of friendship and understanding from 50,000 when they can have 50 million to choose from, potentially?

MrsDeVere - I have read loads about deaf history. I can't turn back time or make it better. But you know, the past is the past. My child lives in the present and needs to be part of this society. Not some backward looking secluded group.

I understand what you mean, OP.

Of course it's a disability but obviously for some people it's going to be worse than for others. Being born deaf is a hell of a lot different than suddenly losing your hearing in your 20s, for example. Being born deaf you don't know any different whereas I imagine that suddenly losing hearing is hard. Awful to have to get used to.

I am not saying that the father has no right to be involved but I am shocked at the suggestion that he knows best because he can hear.

Thats not what I said.

I said that only one parent has the life experience to judge whether the sacrifice of giving up a potential "identity" (that is not established yet as the DC is only 9 years old) is worth it for the opportunity to hear.

The DC's mother is denying her child the opportunity to hear. But she has absolutely no idea what emotions she is denying her DC, because she has never experienced them.

Why would you want to limit their world for the sake of friendship and understanding from 50,000 when they can have 50 million to choose from, potentially?

Deaf people are capable of interacting with more than just the 50,000 (rather a low estimate, btw).

Grennie You had just said it though. It is the point of view of some deaf people. Not all. So it is insensitive to anyone who is deaf or has family that is deaf where the person considers themselves to be disabled.

Btw, I know a LOT of people who think that being deaf isn't really a disability.

Yabu.