to think that being deaf is not a disability?

[manicinsomniac]

I have a friend who is deaf. Her child is also deaf. Her child's father is not deaf.

My friend has a rich and diverse life among the deaf community. BSL is her first language (she also lip reads and is oral) and she feels most at home when using it. She works, she goes out, she watches tv/films, she volunteers and in general has a perfectly normal life, bar the fact that 85-90% of her time is spent with other deaf people. She feels that being able to hear would make her life worse (I can't pretend to understand but I accept what she says - stuff about never being able to experience peace and total focus, not have the ability to make instant friends with others because of a huge commonality, a loss of identity as a part of a very special community etc). She loves being deaf and it is who she is.

She doesn't even use terms like 'hearing loss', she calls it 'deaf gain'.

Her child is 9 and in a deaf unit within a mainstream school. Her ex partner wants the child to have a cochlear implant (I think that's what it is - an operation that would vastly improve the child's hearing anyway) but my friend is very against it as she feels it will take the child out of the community in which they belong and not properly make them a member of any other community. I don't know what the child wants, they are confused and trying to please both parents I think.

Most people have criticised my friend saying things along the lines of, 'why wouldn't you want to cure your child's disability' 'why not make a disabled child's life easier?' etc. I think they are wrong to think in those terms.

AIBU to think that being deaf is not a disability but in fact just a different language and culture?

[CHJR]

• which I take to be, not what do we call deafness, or how do we capitalize it, but how much should the parents be able to choose for a child? And what if the parents disagree?

[FortyDoorsToNowhere]

Without derailing the thread.

How do people who are deaf manage to phone the emergency services or are there devices that can alert people who are deaf there is a fire. Also is all sign language the same ( along the lines of yes and in French is oui)

[CakePunch]

Their are people who argue that ASD and dyslexia are also not disabilities but instead being 'non nurological typical' can aid society by having different view points etc. This is probably true for some people (silicon valley is full of people with ASD), but clearly is not the case for many others. I think deafness isn't always a disability in the typical sense but for most/some it is.

[PestoStormissimos]

Yes OP
YABU

[CakePunch]

Bsl (British sign language) is nationwide. It does however have lots of regional variations, much like English. Deaf people can use a service called type talk to use the phone. I'm not sure if its that quick for 999 calls etc.

[PumpkinPositive]

Also is all sign language the same ( along the lines of yes and in French is oui)

No, it varies from country to country, just like spoken languages. And within the UK, there are regional variations ('accents'). AUSLAN (Australian sign language) however is similar to BSL, but Irish Sign Language is nothing like BSL.

There is also International Sign Language (formerly Gestuno) which many sign language users use when they meet sign language users from other countries.

[StripyPenguin]

It all depends on your viewpoint whether it is a disability or not. If you subscribe to the social model of disability then disability is socially constructed and the person is disabled by the way society is set up - for example a person in a wheelchair could be said to be disabled by people designing and constructing buildings with stairs. Deaf people can be disabled by society not making provision for them.

[Adeleh]

My mother is profoundly deaf. It is a disability. Imagine coping at Birmingham New Street with the announcements on loudspeakers? Also, because it's not a visible disability people tend to minimise it, and get irritated at being asked to repeat themselves. You are more likely to be labelled stupid. And there are plenty of areas where there's no sign language.

[FrogStarandRoses]

OP - the problem is, your friend cannot make a fully informed choice for their son, whereas, her DH can.

Your friend lives with the absence of a sense (has she been deaf since birth?) and while she is has adapted and integrated into a community of others who live with a similar absence she does not physically experience anything unique because she is deaf that a hearing person doesn't/can't experience.

Whereas your friends DH knows what his DS is missing out on. Unlike your friend, he wants his son to have the opportunity to hear the sound of the wind (not just feel it), hear the beeping/bleeps of his electronic games, and hear his own DC's cry at birth.

[hackmum]

This is a very common view amongst the deaf community - a lot of people who were born deaf feel that being deaf is not a disability but opens up access to an alternative culture of deaf people, much in the same way that (say) speaking Welsh opens up access to Welsh language culture.

I find it a very difficult position to understand. For a start, only about 50,000 people in this country use British Sign Language, so it is a very small community, and BSL isn't anything like American Sign Language, so you can't even communicate in person with American deaf people. (Though the internet has opened up a lot of opportunities for deaf people to meet others, obviously.)

As others have said, it's also about listening to music, bird song and so on. If you've never heard those things, you don't know what you're missing.

[Iamavapernow]

I agree with what neepsandtatties said at 17:32.
I have 2 deaf cousins. They are both young adults now, and have hearing parents. They have both had the cochlear implants. Yabu to think being deaf isn't a disability. But all your friends comments about it not being a disability for her are most commonplace, and the majority of the deaf community do not like or approve of cochlear implants or enabling hearing in a deaf person.

[CHJR]

Would the best title for this OP maybe be "To think that deafness is not just a disability"?

[NurseRoscoe]

'deaf gain' doesn't even make grammatical sense, surely it would be 'deafness gain' if opposite of hearing loss?

She is being unreasonable to find the term offensive as hearing loss is precisely what it is, not a criticism of anything.

I think it is a disability. Just she has made the best of the hand she has been dealt, as everyone should do in an ideal world.

[squoosh]

I agree with MrsDeVere, just because the father is hearing does not mean he is coming from a more informed position than the mother.

[GailTheGoldfish]

I've worked with Deaf people for almost 20 years and I'd say that the view that CIs are a threat to the community does still exist but is much less prevalent than it used to be. Over time people have come to see CIs more for what they really are - a bit of technology that can be very useful for some, but obviously deciding to commit to surgery and the permanent nature of them does require strong consideration before going for them for a Deaf person or child. But they don't make a person hearing and they are not a cure, and they don't negate the need for using sign language.

Many Deaf people who would never have considered having a CI 10 years ago have done so now for various reasons - this blog is about a Deaf mother who had an implant because she has a disabled child and is worth a read: themostynthomasjournal.wordpress.com/2012/03/08/the-cochlear-implant-a-deaf-mothers-story/

Hackmum there isn't really a clear figure for BSL users, estimates vary quite a lot, and although ASL and BSL are different two Deaf people using any different signed languages will find a middle ground and establish communication much quicker than hearing people using different spoken languages. royaldeaf.org.uk/newsid_55/How_many_Deaf_BSL_users_in_UK

[LCHammer]

It is more informed to say you know what they're missing on. How else?

[McFox]

Very ignorant to say that it's not a disability. 'Deaf gain' just sounds like trying to make the best of a hard situation to me.

I lost my hearing to a large degree in my mid 20s. No cause was found, and I just had to learn to deal with it. I lost my job as a result and 13 years later, I still struggle to cope sometimes.

If is scary and hard work, and horrible when people feel that it's something to joke about because there are no outward signs of disability (e.g "Can you speak up please, I'm very hard of hearing." "Sorry, did you say something ha ha" I wish I could say that I'd only had this conversation once.) I don't wear aids because, as others have pointed out, they don't help everyone. So it's just a case of making do.

I've felt that this is a disability from the moment it happened, and while I can understand your friend wanting to ensure that her child stays in the community, I think it's quite cruel to refuse medical help where it exists and where it could make their life easier.

[youarewinning]

I think it is a disability in respect that you couldn't hear danger behind you, alarms so therefore puts you at a risk that hearing people don't necessarily have.

However I also know someone who has a DD who's 9 with a profound hearing loss. She is fluent in BSL and had a cochlear implant at 3. She attends MS school with a deaf unit too.

Her DD chooses at times not to wear her cochlear within her deaf community (as that is what HI people themselves call it) however she also can be hearing and have access to sound.

Even with a hearing aid/ cochlear though I would still call HI a disability because the quality and frequency of sounds you can hear are lesser than hearing people.

I guess though if you are born hearing impaired and have never known any different, and therefore don't feel having a profound HI disables you - you won't consider yourself disabled.

My DS has SN, suspected ASD - he doesn't consider himself disabled - but he gets dla because compared to other 9 yo he needs lots of support iyswim?

[littlemisssarcastic]

Deaf people have better visual perception and peripheral vision.

Quite often, this is true, but this isn't helpful in situations where vision is poor, such as in darkness.

I am deaf in one ear, and it causes me a lot of anxiety. Being deaf in one ear means I have no directional hearing, so cannot tell which direction a sound is coming in, I also cannot tell how near or far that sound is, so imagine taking your rubbish out after dark, walking down the dark garden path only to hear footsteps. In this situation, I cannot tell which direction they are coming in, or how near they are.
If I am in bed, and I hear a noise, I cannot tell if it is coming from my neighbours house or mine. I have heard a front door shut and felt my house shake as a result and lay upstairs shitting myself because I've been convinced there is an intruder, only to get up and discover it must have been the neighbours.
It causes anxiety, especially when I cannot see well eg at night time.
Even during the day, I cannot hear if someone creeps up behind me.
I can only sleep on one side, to maximise my chances of hearing anything should it happen in the night.
I cannot hear my front door knocking if my washing machine is on too.
I struggle to hear when there is background noises, so this includes all supermarkets, hospitals, social gatherings, or my own home if the kettle is on or the washing machine is on.

This is a little of what it is like to be single sided deaf. I have no idea what it must be like to be profoundly deaf in both ears, but I imagine the feelings of anxiety are probably stronger.
I find many situations difficult enough as it is, because in situations where there is background noise or darkness, I am only confident of what I can actually see, I cannot rely on my hearing.
I can only imagine what life must be like for someone who has lost all hearing.
This is aside from how tiresome it has become when explaining I am deaf in one ear to be replied to with 'Pardon?' 'What.' 'Say that again.'

I have fallen for this many times in the past, and only realise when I have repeated myself that the reply is to repeat 'What.' 'Pardon.' 'Say that again.' as many times as I try to explain.
Very rude, but apparently an acceptable response to someone explaining they are hard of hearing.


Hearing people tend to focus on communication with other people, but hearing loss affects so much more than that so YABU OP.

[impty]

Yabu. I am so angry I won't go further.