to think my sister is vile and that this is totally unacceptable thing to do

[rainale]

My sister is a very difficult person with a lot of narcissistic traits and she has long blamed our mum for everything bad that has happened in her life. As a consequence of this my mum and sister (23) have had a rocky relationship for several years (she moved out at 18) but things seemed to be improving in the last few months and at the end of November my sister paid for my mum to go away for a 3 day spa break and she would look after my brother (he stays over at hers once a week anyway).

However during this time she and my brother (13) have entered her house and moved all his possessions into her house and both he and she now say that he is going to live with her. She says that mum is not fit to parent that she won’t allow our mum to damage him or subject him to the hell that she had suffer for her childhood. The recent improvement in the relationship appears all to have been an act and she admits that she paid for my mum to go away to give them the time necessary to facilitate moving all of his stuff. My brother absolutely adores my sister and is very impressionable and dsis is quite manipulative IMO but he says this is what he wants.

Mum is devastated, neither sis nor bro will answer her phone calls and when she went around to dsis house they did not answer the door although dsis shouted at her to fuck off out of the window apparently. I spoke to dsis and she is adamant that she has done this for his sake but that “the fact that the bitch is suffering is an added bonus” I have spoken to him and he says that he also hates her and that dsis is far more of a mother to him and has been since he was very little. I personally think that he enjoys the lack of rules etc that he received when he stayed over at hers about once a week and that she is manipulating him against her (I had no issues with the way we were brought up and some of the examples she gives of our mums failures as a parent are ridiculously minor). I have just got off the phone with mum who is distraught and is begging me to help sort the situation and have dbro back home although she seems unwilling to go down the legal route as she obviously has full parental rights over him.

I want to have a more stern word with my sister and tell her what she has done is terrible and that turning my brother against our mum is a deplorable thing to do as well as return him home to my mum. DH on the other hand says that I should not get involved under any circumstances, our dad for what is worth lives in Singapore and so is not really involved in any of our lives and he hates mum anyway.

"my sister I feel has problems and is driving my brothers feelings"

I hate to say this but these are just excuses and are not really anything to do with your mother's lack of effort to get your brother back.

Where was your brother for Christmas? Did your mother see him. Why does your sister have a nights visitation with your brother each week? There is more going on here, none of it adds up. I think the suggestion about going to the school and starting a process whereby your brother determines where he is going to live under the guidnace of a counsellor makes most sense.

somerset op can think that her sister us vile if she wants . Do you know her ds?

I think my df inlaw is vile - because he is!

He spent Christmas with her, I was with DHs family and my mum went to her cousins although she went round to dsis on Xmas day but they refused to answer even to receive the presents she bought him. He used to stay over at DSis just to spend time with each other, they used to watch a dvd and order in a dominos etc.

Do you have children op? If so, how would you react if you came home and found they weren't there. Or you went to to collect them from a relative who refused to hand them over after babysitting?

I don't have children, but I imagine I'd be be gripped with anger, fear and a determination to get them back there and then at all costs, even if the police, social services and uncle Tom Cobbley had to get involved.

If your brother has been ok at school, ie if his attendance or grades haven't slipped and he hasn't mentioned to any staff that he is unhappy there is no need for them to set up a CAF.

Your mother should have reported him missing to the police in the first instance, however it is unlikely that they would forcibly return him home. They would have sent a CCN (Child Concern Notification) to Children's Social Care who would have done an initial visit. The likelihood being that as long as your sister passed a welfare check they would advocate that your brother stay there rather than be forcibly returned to a house where there is obviously some friction. They may even talk to your sister and mother about a Private Fostering Arrangement.

If Children's Social Care do become involved I would recommend you ask for a Family Group Conference where every family member concerned is involved, as well as the Social Worker and an Independent Chairperson. The idea being that a plan is created that everyone agrees on.

OP - You might not think your mum deserves this, but is there any chance your DB's life with your sister might turn out to be better than with your Mum? Because all the officials being involved won't look at what's fair for your mum, but what's best for DB.

On one hand, it's odd your mum has done nothing, but I can see why she might have thought give it a bit of time, your sister might feel she's got one over on your Mum, then the reality of living with and being responsible for a teenager would kick in and she'd want him to go back without any drama, or that your DB might enjoy living with his Sister and having freedom to start with, then get sick of not being looked after or her rules and want to go back to your mum. But htat hasn't happened. Sadly for you OP, I agree a 23 year old narc is unlikely to take in a 13yo brother, she might like the idea of it, she might even plan it, but I can't see it lasting this long. I also can't see if she's hard to live with that your brother, knowing he could go back to your mums wouldn't just go.

You think your sister is vile for doing this to your mum ,you assume this is something she is doing to hurt your mum, but is there a chance your sister might actually be doing this for your brother? It might not all be about your mum?

Theres a lot in here about your mum ,what this is doing to her, what about your DB? Of all the people involved, he is the most important, where is he best to be living? If he can't live with your Mum anymore for whatever reason, is your sister a fit person to raise him? If not, would you? Someone has to put this boy first, it sounds like your mum is your priority, she shouldn't be, it should be your brother.

Tinkertaylor

The OP asked if she was BU to think her sister is vile. Of course she has the right to think that. But I am replying that I think she is BU.
That is the point of this thread.

DontmindifIdo you put it perfectly.

OP have you actually asked your do why he doesn't want to go home?

It was so well planned it sounds as if he was desperate to get away.

It's not as if he has just stropped off, is it?

OP I think you need to say to your mum, 'Look, I won't turn against you whatever you say, but I need to know if there's anything you haven't told me about why you won't go to the police about DB being at DSis's. Is there something you are frightened will come out?' And make the point to her that she can't hope to hang onto her 'pride' if she really wants him back - that just has to be put on one side.

Also, as Thatisall says, have you had an honest convo with your brother about this? Without your sister there?

Let "the authorities" handle this, as they are an impersonal agent, outside the bad dynamics of your family. Frankly, you can't solve this, as your involvement will be taken as biased (as it is) and an attack.

The fact that DM hasn't informed authorities or tried to get her son back speaks volumes as to her capabilities as a parent I think. Pride is a really bad reason not to fight for her son.

if my dsis had taken my ds I would go round and bring him home within an hour. 6 weeks and shes done nothing? !! think u may be seeing mummy thru rose tinted glasses!

When you say "I am not going to say my mum's perfect" what do you mean?

Either the mother posted this story herself recently, or this is happening to someone else on MN as well. The ages and details mentioned in this thread match what I remember of the other one.

Someone else may remember the other thread.

Really shoom?

A wind up do you think?

Walt, I wasn't thinking wind-up, just that it was familiar. (Glad to see you've recovered from "RTFT!" rocking in a corner and muttering about smarties.)

The other thread was posted by the mother and said much the same IIRC about a daughter accusing the OP of being narcissistic, manipulating the son and him not wanting to return home. Same ages, son 13/14, daughter early 20s. I'm sure I posted on it but can't see it in TIO, although that only covers the last 21 days. The other thread was probably soon after he disappeared.

Just about, though one never knows when hysteria will strike again!

Hmm...that's very interesting. Perhaps OP can come back and clarify!

OP, it's pretty common for siblings to have different views on their upbringings and it's something psychologists recognise as valid.

I agree with PP that your mum should raise this officially with someone. Maybe she waited initially in the hope it could be sorted out after a few days. If you aren't able to help (e.g. point out the legal implications to your siblings) then it seems they'll all just continue on until a third party reports it. It must be known by others, e.g. your brothers friends will know, and it's surely the sort of things teenagers will gossip about.

Shoom I remember it too from before Christmas.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a1933259-to-feel-desperately-sad-about-the-state-of-my-relationship-with-son

Yes it is remarkably similar, but the ages (14 in that one, 13 in this) and the dates don't marry up. In this thread the boy was living with his sister by November and the other thread is dated December mentions that the relationship between son and mother deteriorating but he was atill living with his mother.

Mind you it does seem a remarkable coincidence, same family dynamics etc.

After about eleventy years without a decent nights' sleep I'm impressed that my memory got that close .