to think my sister is vile and that this is totally unacceptable thing to do

[rainale]

My sister is a very difficult person with a lot of narcissistic traits and she has long blamed our mum for everything bad that has happened in her life. As a consequence of this my mum and sister (23) have had a rocky relationship for several years (she moved out at 18) but things seemed to be improving in the last few months and at the end of November my sister paid for my mum to go away for a 3 day spa break and she would look after my brother (he stays over at hers once a week anyway).

However during this time she and my brother (13) have entered her house and moved all his possessions into her house and both he and she now say that he is going to live with her. She says that mum is not fit to parent that she won’t allow our mum to damage him or subject him to the hell that she had suffer for her childhood. The recent improvement in the relationship appears all to have been an act and she admits that she paid for my mum to go away to give them the time necessary to facilitate moving all of his stuff. My brother absolutely adores my sister and is very impressionable and dsis is quite manipulative IMO but he says this is what he wants.

Mum is devastated, neither sis nor bro will answer her phone calls and when she went around to dsis house they did not answer the door although dsis shouted at her to fuck off out of the window apparently. I spoke to dsis and she is adamant that she has done this for his sake but that “the fact that the bitch is suffering is an added bonus” I have spoken to him and he says that he also hates her and that dsis is far more of a mother to him and has been since he was very little. I personally think that he enjoys the lack of rules etc that he received when he stayed over at hers about once a week and that she is manipulating him against her (I had no issues with the way we were brought up and some of the examples she gives of our mums failures as a parent are ridiculously minor). I have just got off the phone with mum who is distraught and is begging me to help sort the situation and have dbro back home although she seems unwilling to go down the legal route as she obviously has full parental rights over him.

I want to have a more stern word with my sister and tell her what she has done is terrible and that turning my brother against our mum is a deplorable thing to do as well as return him home to my mum. DH on the other hand says that I should not get involved under any circumstances, our dad for what is worth lives in Singapore and so is not really involved in any of our lives and he hates mum anyway.

We only have your side of it.Your mother choosing to do nothing because of her "pride" sounds frankly ridiculous.

TBH I can't imagine any 23 year old voluntarily taking on the care of her 13 year old brother just on a whim.

Something isn't right here, your mothers actions so far are telling of that.

I am sorry but I don't believe for a second your mum feels her dd kidnapped her ds (and is manipulating him) and has not told any authority figures out of pride.

If she genuinely thought her ds was being used by your dsis, pride would not get in the way.

There is more to this isn't there.

I agree you need to get a third party in to mediate and work out a way forward. Agee children's services

There is a massive difference between someone being unpleasant, somewhat self-centred, or a lot self-centred, and bitter, than that same person being 'unstable.'

It's quite possible that the sister is not a danger to her brother in any sense, but equally is not facilitating a positive relationship with their mother.

In that situation, when the mother knows that her DS is safe, that he's still attending school and the sister has the means to provide for him, I can see why she may have initially thought it would blow over and she could 'play the long game'.

I don't think I'd do that myself, but perhaps she felt that if she went over and forced her way in/caused trouble at the school/called the police, she would be giving her DD fuel to add to her fire?

I would call the police for advice on the 101 number, I think. They'll be able to tell you what they can actually do, and what other agencies may be able to do.

I was on your mothers side until I realised she has done nothing since November about this!

Sounds to me like your mum thought over Christmas/ new year period your bro or sis would crack and he'd return without necessary involvement from outside?

However I agree there has to be more to this? Your Dbro was 8/9 when your sister left? You were 21 at the time? Were you living at home then? Are you aware of what was going on?

Something must of happened for it to come to this. Whether it be your Dsis manipulating your Dbro weekly at their sleepovers into thinking your mum is a bad mum or something has happened your not privy to I couldn't even guess to.

But you need transparency here and agrees a mediator may be the one to find the underlying reasons.

The head teacher would be the way forward, she can have an honest talk and agree for them to set up a CAF.

(Common Assessment Framework) this will support your brother.

This can be taken upto a level 3 by the school, which is under a "Child In Need" and would get your brother an advocate and counselling etc, if he will comply.

The assessment procedure is the same as if the police had got in touch with SS. It isn't about blaming anyone.

It is to make sure that your brother is being well looked after and that his needs are being met.

At his age he can decide on where he lives.

If your Mum receives benefits for him, then she will have big changes happening and will need your support.

I think that you really need to try not to take sides. Whilst I know the phases teens go through (been there) it's very unusual to go from a good relationship to leaving.

Contrary to popular belief, even if the "life of Riley" is on offer, teens choose to be at home.

You need to accept that something has gone wrong, that doesn't just involve your Sis.

As your DH has more information on this than us he is probable the one that you should listen too.

Where did your brother spend Christmas?

"It's quite possible that the sister is not a danger to her brother in any sense, but equally is not facilitating a positive relationship with their mother."

If she is doing that then it is emotional abuse, there seems to be a lot if ignoring going on in the family.

The OP's DH seems to want that to continue, or he can see something that the OP can't.

Agree the authorities need to be involved.

Assuming your mum gets child benefit etc for him? In which case, could it be fraud if he's not living there? Might persuade your mum to act, as your sister sounds the type to report her.

Your sister sounds sane. Your mother sounds nuts.

I'm going to play devil's advocate (my mum is a horrid person, manipulative and sneaky) and say what if your sister is right?
If dsis believes that her do is suffering or will suffer if he remains in the care if your DM, then essentially she has done a very clever, brave and same thing.
If dsis is wrong then ask yourself this, why won't DM contact the police. To me that is questionable. Does it not suggest that there might be more at play here that DM is worried will come out if the police get involved,

I absolutely think you should get involved and speak frankly to your dsis but be prepared to have an open mind and consider whether she may be in the right here.

rainale

"to be honest I think dsis has problems and needs to get some help but instead she has preferred to scapegoat mum and has been vengeful and bitter for years."

This is "your opinion" it may have no basis in what your sister (or Brother) believes they went through.

This is very, very odd.

I can't imagine a selfish, narcissistic 23 year old taking on the care (including financial care) of a 13 year old as some sort of revenge.

I can't imagine a mother doing jack shit about her son being taken for 6 weeks.

I also think it's a bit odd that your mum has three children and only one of you thinks she's been a good mother...

Since November?

Why would a sane, reasonable & loving parent upon discovering her child has been taken from her home, shrugs her shoulders and says 'oh well.'

Surely in these most parents would have been straight round and kick the door down to get their child back. Or if your mum is too proud (and that's a crap excuse) simply met him from school and taken him home.

Has your mum attempted to make contact with her son?

OP from reading your posts here I think you are blind to what is going on. Or rather you are normalising behaviour that is far from normal, but which may be the only normal you know. Since your brother has gone to your sisters your mother's response is at best benign neglect. But you make excuses and absolve her of responsibility for that. 'She's too proud to act', 'she doesn't want to cause a scene', 'she's so upset she can't think straight'.

I suspect that things have never been as rosy in the garden as you like to think and the fact that you have no issues with how you were raised is because you've been conditioned to minimise neglectful behaviour.

Perhaps you are the golden child OP....

Don't you find it odd that your dad, sister and brother are all utterly hostile to your mother?

BTW I think you are ABSOLUTELY U un thinking your sister is 'vile', the title of your thread,

Agree with others that a 23 year old narc would NOT, NOT take in her 13 year old brother. Your mother sounds odd.

My dad cheated on my mum which lead to an acrimonious divorce, my sister I feel has problems and is driving my brothers feelings. I'm not going to say my mum is perfect she's not but she doesn't deserve the treatment she has received.

She still has NOT behaved normally here.

Honestly, she really has not, has she? Do you think she has behaved normally?

That is about your mother.
Not your sister, who sounds selfless and very well rounded, to be frank.

Dsis sound like a guardian angel. There is more to this story than meets the eye.