To not let my dc's see my dying grandad..?

[Tillyscoutsmum]

My grandad is in the final stages of terminal cancer. He is 86, bed bound and on oxygen. He is, however, still very much "with it".

My dc's are 4 and 6. They're not especially close to their great grandad - they've probably seen him 3 or 4 times a year.

My dd (6), in particular, is very sensitive. When my aunt had cancer a couple of years ago, I had to take her with me to visit her. For months and months after she was obsessed with death and people dying. It's only really been the last few months that she's stopped asking if someone is going to die if they're sick or have a cough It really affected her.

So, that's the background. My issue now is that my grandad keeps asking where my dc's are. I've deliberately kept them away because I know it would upset them (well certainly dd). I went to visit yesterday and he got quite teary and said "I'm probably never going to see them again, am I?" I felt awful

On one hand, I'd know he'd love to see them. On the other, I want to protect them. I'm genuinely torn....

I'm sorry your grandad is so ill tilly.

In the nicest possible way, I think yabu. I say this in the situation that tomorrow we're taking our dcs to visit dh's uncle who is also terminally ill with cancer, although not (yet, i guess :( ) as obviously ill as your grandad.

Last year our son was stillborn (in traumatic circumstances that involved my dcs seeing a lot of blood), and my own grandad died a few months later. We had visited him, thankfully, not that long beforehand and he was very frail and my 6 yr old did get upset seeing him- it was obvious, I think, that he didn't have long left.

My dcs are still finding dealing with their brothers death very hard - in particular my 6 yr old. I have the same fears as you, in taking them tomorrow.... But I really think it's right, and even more so in your situation as your grandad has specifically asked.

One of the things that has been so hard since my ds died, is that so many people refuse to acknowledge him, to allow any talk of him - not allowing me to mention him, but most upsettingly shutting down my other dcs when they want to be able to talk about their brother. I think this is a very strange part of our society, and it makes dealing with death so much harder for those of us who are grieving. It is what spero said - and I hope that one of the small bits of good we will bring out of our difficult times, is that our children will grow up to be people like those who have walked with me and helped me and not hidden away because of their own fear of death.

I hope you find the right way forward for your family & good luck whatever you decide.

I would take them. I lost my granddad when I was 7 and I wasn't allowed to see him or go to his funeral. It still broke my heart. My parents thought they were doing the right thing but I think we can try too hard to protect children from reality.

Mine were five and seven when my step-dad was dying of cancer, and despite him looking fairly ill, with his scar from brain surgery showing up due to baldness and being a yellowish colour, with swollen legs, they managed really well, we all just treated him the same as usual and never made a big issue of him being very very sick. They loved each other and it was important for him to say goodbye. I worried about how it might affect them, but I think hiding away illness and death could end up more worrying in the long run. Not sure what to advise, but that was my personal experience.

BlueSky - I am so sorry about your ds :-(

Thank you everyone for your responses. I think I'm going to talk to the dc's and, depending on their reaction, gently encourage them to come with me for a short visit (assuming I can talk DH round first )

I was young when my grandad became ill. I was "shielded" from him - and then ( by accident) saw him when he was close to the end.

Because I hadn't seen him for ages and then he looked (awful) so different, the 7 year old me was really scared. It remains a horrid memory and I am sad because it overrides any other memories. My mum is also sad as she says PIL was a lovely man and loved his grandchildren.

My little one saw her Grandad very regularly until (almost) the end, and was not scared as his gradual decline went unnoticed. He was just beloved Grandad to her. She loved him and he loved her. I did not take her in the last few weeks ( when he became very, very ill ) as I wanted her memories of him to be nice ones.

Dying is part of a life cycle and in my view, it is important that children learn that when someone dies, life doesn't end and instead we remember the loved once and carry on.

I'm in favour of allowing children to witness the full cycle of life. Unless there is something extremely traumatic there is no reason to shield them, however well intentioned it is. I went to my uncle's funeral after he committed suicide when I was 2, though I wasn't told how he died till later. When I was 6 my dad died. He had been ill for some time and I genuinely don't think I was damaged by knowing the truth. Of course losing him affected me but I'm glad my mum didn't keep me away from what was going on.

I think you should take them. I saw my DGF when he was really poorly and it was a shock but I also think this helped to digest the news when he passed.

Take them. Death is a part of life, everyone who is born will die at some point.
I think children should be aware of that and it becomes less scary a concept.

So sorry you've got to go through this OP.

I'm another one who says take them. As others have said, just warn them that he's not well, possibly because he's very old. That can help later with the "will you died too mummy" conversation.

Not only would it mean so much to your grandfather, I also think it's important not to shield children too much. On occasion, terrible things happen, including unexpected death / serious illness that cannot be managed or avoided. It's even harder to deal with the emotional trauma of that if there is no previous experience to draw upon (remembered or not).

And if it's your grandfather it should be your call unless their DF has a very, very good reason.

Do not hesitate to take them. As a previous poster said. It's actually an opportunity for them to experience death without the emotional involvement of someone close to them. Just because your dd reacted the way she did before, they change and develop south at that age, she will probably react completely differently this time.

Sorry- change and develop so quickly

I think that this is your grandfather, and you have the right to take them - it is up to your DH to come up with an argument to convince you, not the other way around. He is doing his children a great disservice.

You might want to point out to him that you do not want to have to say in the future to your children that it was their father who would not let them visit their dying ggfather. And that you also have no intention of telling your mother that her grandchildren are not allowed to visit her dying DF - if he doesn't want them to, he can justify himself to your mother directly.

Because I hadn't seen him for ages and then he looked (awful) so different, the 7 year old me was really scared. It remains a horrid memory

I think this is what the OP has to consider. Her children have seen this ggf only 3 times a year - they have not witnessed his gradual decline. To see him now in this state (on oxygen, wasting away, unable to speak easily) might be quite shocking.

I know many people think that children shouldn't be protected from death - but I wonder how many adults here have seen someone in the terminal stages of cancer? I know that my own grandfather wanted to protect his beloved grandchildren from seeing him so horribly changed, and our memories weren't ruined by seeing those last struggling days.

I'm a lot older than most on here and I can tell you that children were very much protected from death when I was young (late 1940s on). I certainly wouldn't want my precious grandchildren being brought in to "say goodbye" to me in such a formal way, and I'm not at all sure that the rights of the dying are more valid than the rights of the child here.

Oh, and I do think there's a difference between teaching children to accept that people die, and actually talking them along to view the dying.

Nobody ever lied to us when we were young - we were well aware that people died (childhood polio, diphtheria and TB were still killing people regularly) - but we didn't have to view the nearly-dead to be aware of that fact.

My Grandpa died last year. I asked my older children if they wanted to see him and they didn't but they both wrote him a letter and I got the little ones to draw him a picture. He was really pleased when I them in and managed to draw a little smiley face for me to show them

Obviously before he died not from beyond I need to proof read.

I think the assessment you have to make is whether your DD1 is likely to deal with the situation better than she did the last time, or whether it will compound the previous trauma. The problem is that if the wrong choice is made, the emotional damage with have been done before the situation can be rectified.

Is it likely that DD1 would be able to hold her responses in check if she found the visit traumatic? There is the very real danger of her upsetting you DGD if she reacts badly.

You know your dc best, all you can do is make a decision based on your knowledge of them.

OP, I really hope you will grant your GF this wish, and take your DC in to see him just for a really short visit (any longer will be tiring for GF, and may be overwhelming for DC). I don't think ill people should be hidden away. I've had two close friends die from cancer in the past couple of years, and my cousin is currently terminally ill with it. Both my friends were lucid, sociable and enjoyed seeing people (either in the hospice or at home) right up until their deaths. Although both looked frail, neither looked distressing (I realise this varies depending on the cancer being experienced). Children can, and I believe should, learn that ageing and illness is a part of life and there's nothing scary about it, the person is still their grandfather (or GGF in this case). The friend who died most recently was a grandmother and all her DC/GC visited regularly and popped in to see her on a frequent basis, though visits were kept short.

I think it would be a lovely thing to do for your GF, and if he has asked about this, it is definitely on his mind.

For me I look at an analogy with bad weather. You don't pretend to your children that it never rains, you take them out in the rain with an umbrella and a rain coat.

You don't leave them in the storm with just a T Shirt on but you teach them how to deal with it, so when they face bad weather of their own they have a better idea what to do.

Not wanting to visit people who are dying is, in my view, strongly linked to people not wanting to talk to or about the people who are dying.

My maddest ex boyfriend was as mad and as messed up as he was because when he was 12 his mother died - she had been ill for nine months with cancer and no one told him or his siblings she was going to die. So they simply resented her over time for being ill and not looking after them. They never got a chance to say good bye. It screwed up the entire family.

Depends on how bad he is as yes you don't necessarily want the children to see something scary and unpleasant. My children saw my mum a week or so before she died. They were fine. I wouldn't have wanted them to see her when she was at her worst and suffering from terminal anxiety. You know the situation and your children Op - only you can really decide - good luck.

I think it depends on how you think your children will cope with it and by the sounds of it you know your 6 yr old may find it too much.

My MIL was very ill in November and at one point wasn't expected to survive. As much as she might have wanted to see my DS 4 I didn't take him into hospital to visit her. She is elderly and will not be here when he is an adult - I don't want his memories of her to be dying in a hospital bed. I want him to remember his Nana playing with him instead.

It's not that children need shielding from death but as the adult we have to judge how much is ok for them to cope with and how much do they really need to see so young. It is sad if your grandfather doesn't see them gain but do they need that memory of him for the rest of their lifes?

I remember back in them id seventies, my maternal grandfather, who I was quite close to, was in hospital and dying. I wanted to visit him but my mum said not to as he would realise something was more seriously wrong. He died without me not seeing him. I have never forgiven my mum for that. I suppose I should have ignored her really and just gone.

Whoops that was a lot of bad grammar!