To think state should run more creches?

[3asAbird]

Often ponder in 8 years now had kids why creches/adhoc childcare does not exist?

to have a any childcare need contract with preschool/nursery set pays, pay term in advance.

no flexibility at all.pay when they ill or on holiday.

I know some gyms have creches which seems good idea encourage parents exercise.

but with so many people on non set, zero hours shifts.
people having no faily or freinds nearby.

would be handy. i would happily pay hourly rate so dident have to take younger 2 to gps with me.
Flipping parents evening only one of us can go.
school plays/sports day/assemblies can be nightmare.

Im sure it be good for the economy.

even at school theres breckfast club limited numbers, no after school club and local holiday provision patchy and expensive at best.

wonder if it exists in other countries?

surly as long as its safe
the staff trained
ratio good guess thats be hardest t predict as business model its the not knowing in advance

Also being settled within a setting but cant help feel it be so helpful it wouldent be free but would be affordable.

3Asabird you are completely right! It isn't something I've thought of, but now you mention it, there's a huge gap in the market!

www.feministarchivenorth.org.uk/chronology/appendixi.htm

Free 24 hr nurseries was a key demand of the women's movement in 1970's

I agree- childcare provision has not kept up with changes in family and working life.

I am registering as a CM currently and it is my intention to offer as much flexibility as possible, including overnight and adhoc service, that still takes into account what is best for the children and my own family and allows me to take a reasonable wage. Long term- when my dcs are up a bit i would love to be able to open a larger scale child care service to allow greater flexibility for families.

It would be fantastic if there was state support to make providing such a service financially viable fore childcare providers.

You can't really have 'on demand' childcare though can you. How would the creche know how many to staff to have on to cover the ratios. What if you turn up and all the places for the day have gone already. How ill the cost of running it be covered if you only pay when you go, who will cover the cost of 'downtime'

And how many pre-schoolers would feel comfortable being handed over to a complete stranger for an hour?

It would be very hard to make an ad hoc childcare service viable, but YANBU to think we should have access to free nursery style childcare. I'm not sold on the idea that it should be available just so that parents can go to parents evenings together, but I do think it should be available to anyone who needs childcare so they can work.

It would mean that no one was ever better off on benefits because of the cost of childcare, and people would be able to provide financially for themselves instead of having to claim child tax credits.

I've often been frustrated by similar issues e.g. School breakfast club is only 3 days per week because the initial sign up of parents made this financially viable. However if I KNEW that my child care would be sorted in term of breakfast and after school clubs then I would feel able to actually GET a job. My salary wouldn't cover nanny etc so I give up before I get started on the job hunt.
Child care should be subsidised much more by the state to free us to work.
I neglect my health and teeth as I just CAN'T face going to dr or dentist to discuss myself accompanied by toddler and appointments can only be arranged on the morning of the appointment and I can't arrange child care at such short notice.

Standard monthly fee for holding a place. Less than what an hourly rate would be. If you arrive with child you pay the full rate for the hours you use on top of standard fee. Creche has a booking system to be able to plan sufficient staff- they also operate and 'on call' rota like hospital staff to be called in when necessary for the unbooked arrivals.

I also would insist on settling in before any ad hoc care took place rather than someone just knocking my door at 7pm asking if jimmy who ive never met can stay for an hour.

Glad im not mad just childcares so flipping ridgid.

I think a membership fee then pay in advance ie buy blocks of sessions or pay as you drop off.

maybe They could insist on tour and meeting kids before you book any sessions in just so the kids know the environment.

but then adhoc be fab as no family nearby theres times when i dont want dump kids for long just need hour or 2.

My 2half year old think would beneft from shorter periods as nursery/preschool is 3hour blocks.

most say you have to commit 2sessions.
pay term at a time.

if was subsidised by governemnt keep it affordable.

so many schools even now have inadequate afterschool provision also school holidays are vastly more than waht 2parents be entitled to.

childcare major barrier going back work and schools add more complications.

it would need large premises diffrent areas like nurseries so

babies-2
3-5
6-10
11+

Im sure in norway they have this sort of thing.

From what i gather lot of childminders are not that felexible and many tied to specific schools for school run as few goos ones locally but noe of them pick up at dd1s school.

You hear daycare in usa wondered if thats just preschool level as they have holiday camps over there too.

im sure anyone who did it would make a killing.

7-7 memebreship and hourly rate.
option to buy in snacks and meals on top.

zipity feel your pain last 2gps appoitments been disaster.
had to take all 3 to youngests hospital appointment.
had to take younger 2 in school tours to find out some schools dont like kids and what you mean you bringing a child with you!
Would be nice to do parents evenings together ornot leave my childs play as younger ones playing up.

dd2 does 1 day private nursery thur and 1 day preschool shes 4 so misseed starting school last year is expensive even with preschool grant but must admit nursery day gives me flexabiity to actually do stuff mundane chores, try and book appointments, driving lessons .

The government doesn't have spare money sloshing around to fund new schemes. It can however fund its priorities, but will typically ask the responsible department to arrange it within its current budget.

Would this come off education or families? And which of the current (remaining, cut to the bone) services would you reduce/cut to fund this?

There's one near me that runs on an hourly rate basis, if you drop your child off at 9 and collect at 12, you pay from 9-12 whereas most nurseries charge from 7:30-12:30. They also charge per meal instead of automatically including it in the price.

If they have the space they will let you book on an ad hoc basis.

It's run by the preschool learning alliance- might be worth looking if they run one near you?

Who would fund this?
The tax payer, some of whom don't have children.
I guess its the same as any state funded benefit these days, nobody would agree as benefits are being cut.

seems better than give 12000 free childcare to 2parents per child who have joint income of upto 300k.

im not saying it should be free.

maybe subsidised or sliding scle hourly rate based on income bracket.

even the new childcare vouchers think childcare stops at 5.

its tricky get wrap around care for older child in the holidays.

dds old school had outside provider who only run 2.6week holidays.

but really adhoc just for few hours as when needed emergency coming up, appointments would be fab service well worth paying for it existed.

none of the nurseries/preschools take past 5 here.

It's also about the attitudes that people have.

The attitude that the mother should be free and able to drop everything to look after her children, and that her needs - such as medical appts - or wants, such as gym time - are just something that kids can be brought to, or that should be cancelled until proper childcare is sourced.

I'm due to get some dental work done, and it's been a bugger trying to find an appt at a time when DH will be off work to enable me to go to the dentists for 2 half hour slots. It shouldn't be so hard, and I know that if there were creches nearby then I'd be happy to leave my 2DC there for a short time.

Roar i went nearly 2 months without dental treatment due to husbands new job no weekdays off for 4weeks, dentist is miles away plus needed drugs so wouldent have been in fit state by myself with kids.

I will get round to a smear eventually but getting any appointments at gps is tricky at that;

The older 2 are ld eldest in school, middle one 1 day nursery/preschool but have no one have youngest one during weekday not even for a hour as my closest freinds work,dont have kids and not freindly with anyone enough with kids ask someone have him for an hour,

I do see people with local family who help loads and they dont realise how hard it is.

I try spend one on one time with all 3 of them and cram as much into husbands day off as possible.

I dont begrudge paying and reading fewposts of mumsnet think emergency short term childcare be good thing.

but it does not exist here and live in large city.

I would consider casual use crèches for both young babies and for children 4+ (as long as they are if high standards of course) but I don't think they would work for my toddlers between 1-4 years as I think children these ages in particular need to go to familiar caregivers.

Nursery, cm and regular babysitters work much better for this age group ime.

But who would staff them? I spent years training in childcare, worked in a few nurseries til it came to the point when I knew at aged 24 that I would never be able to move out of my parents house, not even into a rented room when in a minimum wage job.

Government funding would have to be insanely big, factor in the cost of the infrastructure like premises, recruiting, paperwork like risk assessments and verification of references and carrying out crb checks. Then actual running costs, then staff costs. What if one week they are staffed to take in say 12 children and only one shows up? For an hour? Even at minimum wage you're paying the wages of up to four staff members, depending on age ratios. Plus running costs eg electricity, food.

So on Tuesday one week only three children are in for an hour each. So manager decides that next Tuesday they only use half the staff, which leaves several staff members short on hours and potentially unable to pay rent etc. But on that Tuesday thirty children turn up, and most have to be turned away due to short staffing. So you have disgruntled parents having to cancel appointments etc, who then say well no point using the service if there is no space. So fewer users, funding is withdrawn, staff let go.

There are reasons the childcare sector is structured in the way it is. It isn't just to frustrate parents! A lot of us are scrapping by on minimum wage, staff turnover is high in nurseries as it is bloody hard work. I had to get out of nursery work, I'm a nanny now and although I work insane hours at least I can afford to rent a wee flat.

And not to mention job satisfaction- a lot of career childcarers it know enjoy the relationships they develop with their charges, seeing them grow and develop and learn and change. Working in a crèche designed to take children at random for an hour or a day without any kind of consistency or settling in period is not going to attract many decent childcare professionals. It can be really hard work settling in a new child, particularly a toddler, you do tend to have a period of tears and frustration. If that is happening every hour throughout the day, constantly taking in new weeping children and trying to provide quality care and doing paperwork and doing hangovers with parents of children leaving... No one could do that stressful job for long. It can be horrendously emotional, having a sobbing child either clinging to you or refusing to be held and having to cope not just with them but with the other children too.

I've done similar work, in a hotel nursery, and have to say it's very draining. All the joy of childcare is taken away. This is one of those ideas that seem feasible but speaking as someone on the inside, it would never work. The cost alone rules it out, let alone the rest.

Ratios. How would the crèche manage to cover child-adult ratios? Hire staff and pay them even if nobody wanted to use the crèche that day? Or have more children turn up the next day than they can legally accommodate and having to disappoint some of the parents?

There IS actually one in my town - but they keep all their workers on zero-hours contracts, and all of them have to be available to be called in to work the same day, often with only an hour's notice , preventing them from getting other jobs. Which is shit for the staff , as most have been forced into the job through having been on JSA and now they don't have a reliable income, and can't claim TC's because they aren't guaranteed 24 hrs work a week.

Maybe some sort of 'floating' nanny service.

Say a dentist had one day a month where they had a nanny on the premises who could look after x number of children so you could book in at the same time as you book the dentist.

The same with schools and parents' evenings, have a room set aside as a pop up creche.

Why not get a babysitter for parent's evenings, or find a friendly mum in one of the other age groups who could have them for an hour or so and you pay her back when she wants to get to the parent's evenings?

In Sweden, where we live, the childcare is hugely subsidised but comes with conditions attached, presumably in order to make it affordable for the tax payer and have some structure for the childcare providers.

Basically you can have childcare for children over one year old according to your working/study hours or 15 hours a week if jobseeking (more hours are available for jobseekers on certain kinds of benefits). But it has to be planned, arranged in advance and you may be required to prove what your work or study hours are. And it's ONLY available to cover work, study or jobseeking so not any other support tasks, own time or anything else.

I found this exceptionally tough at first when I was SAHM to a toddler and a neeborn far away from family help and I could have really done with more structured care for DD1. But the continuity and the quality of care is excellent in a pre-school setting with a minimum ratio of qualified staff. And EVERYONE rich or poor has the same rules. Nannies and private nurseries are non-existant, meaning that all parents are in the same boat and in general understand, respect and support each other more.

here in France, creche is the norm for 0-3 year olds. state funded, open from 8am till 630on, five days a week. working parents are given priority but even sahm can find part time and occasional need spots. it's means tested, but the hourly rate is usually very modest , 2 or 4 euros an hour, or less. then once a child turns three they start nursery (no charge to parents except for school meals) again open to all children, 0830 to 1630 every day except Wed (and plenty of options are providede for that day). there are many private options, many of which are also subsidized by the state, as well as an army of qualified nounous (nannies) whose rates are set by the govt.

I personally wouldn't want to put s three month old baby in full time childcare but at least the government is putting its money where its mouth is in terms of enabling families, especially women, to work. I have been told that it's

having lived outside the UK for a while and hearing the childcare / work woes of friends who live there, I just cannot get my head around it. why does the financial responsibility for childcare rest with the parents until the magic age of five, when it gets handed over to the tax payer? why not collectively provide child care from birth? It's not down to the whole child care versus 'real' education, because the whole system here is about getting children ready to start proper school at 6. my sil in the UK is avoiding having a second baby because she can't afford the nursery bills for the first 3/5 years of its life and she can't afford to not work either. that's madness!