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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

WIBU in how I handled this situation?

31 replies

PenguinofDeath · 08/01/2014 14:16

I was travelling on an hour long airport coach with my DH and baby DS last night to get back home (we live abroad). There were 2 English men (20&23 - also living abroad and working as teachers) behind us having a loud conversation - they hadn't travelled together but knew each other vaguely, so were swapping a lot of details of their lives.

At first their chat was annoying just because of the volume and the overuse of the adjective "sick" but eventually their conversation turned to women and their sexual conquests. I felt really uncomfortable with the language they were using, particularly "smashing her" and a lot of swearing. One was also talking about how he was cheating on his girlfriend. It just seemed very sexist and made me and DH really uncomfortable.

Now, my ds is 3 months and there were no other children around to understand/overhear, but I turned around and asked them politely if they wouldn't mind keeping their conversation down. They apologised but then carried on after muttering something that sounded suspiciously like "interfering old bag", so 10 mins later my DH asked them again because there were other english speaking people on the bus. They apologised again but then started playing what sounded like pornographic videos. So I retaliated by loudly talking about he particularly gruesome elements of my recent childbirth and the fact my lochia had just ended and I had my first period back. Graphically.

Now, DH thinks IWBU because a) DS couldn't understand anyway, b) don't women talk about men that way too (I don't) and c) he had to listen to the gruesome stuff as well, but it did seem to work as they moved swiftly on to discussing the local cuisine...

WIBU and an "interfering old bag?!"

OP posts:
CoffeeTea103 · 08/01/2014 14:21

Yanbu to think they should have been a bit more discreet but I think you were being a bit dramatic to expect your DS to know what they were talking about and childish to have your own equally unpleasant conversation.

poorbuthappy · 08/01/2014 14:25

Why is it only kids who we should protect from these conversations?
You said you were uncomfortable and didn't want to hear it, asked them to keep it down, they didnt so you retailiated by saying something they didn't want to hear, which worked.

Win win yes?

Original poster
PenguinofDeath · 08/01/2014 14:27

He didn't know, I never said I thought he knew? I pointed out his age and the absence of other children as perhaps this made their conversation less of an issue, but nonetheless it was offensive to me as an adult.

I found it a sexist conversational and thought that as a feminist I would be hypocritical not to speak up.

However I did feel childish having my retaliative conversation, so maybe you're right! It worked though, and they ignored our polite requests Sad

OP posts:
TheFabulousIdiot · 08/01/2014 14:30

I think you are brilliant.

Shitehawke · 08/01/2014 14:34

If you included stitches, first poo after childbirth and the sound a blood clot makes hitting a tiled bathroom floor, then no.

WilsonFrickett · 08/01/2014 14:34

I think you did really well and it is Sad that it's more acceptable to say 'please don't talk about smashing your girlfriend in front of my child' than it is to say 'please don't talk like a misogynist in front of me'.

I do think the 'two can play at that game' was a bit childish but hey, it had the desired effect, right? And that doesn't take away from the fact you spoke up for yourself Thanks

misskatamari · 08/01/2014 14:35

Not unreasonable - good on you!

Original poster
PenguinofDeath · 08/01/2014 14:41

My birth was disappointingly/surprisingly lacking in particularly gruesome elements but I did get in a good description of the placenta and a charming anecdote about the midwife mistaking a pubic hair for a stitch when she was removing them with tweezers (eye-wateringly painful that was!)

I'm only 26 myself so not best pleased at being described an old hag!

OP posts:
Nancy66 · 08/01/2014 14:44

who cares if the child was not old enough to understand? Some adults don't want to listen to stuff like this either.

I swear a LOT but I still don't use bad language in front of strangers in public places as it's horribly disrespectful (and common)

I've had a go at people using in appropriate language on public transport before and fully expect to get my face smashed in one day because of it.

Onesleeptillwembley · 08/01/2014 14:44

Yanbu to ask them to be quieter, not in the slightest.
But you lost the high ground when you dunk to their level.

Juno77 · 08/01/2014 14:46

I also think you are brilliant.

LoonvanBoon · 08/01/2014 14:48

Excellent response, well done. I don't want to hear vile, misogynistic shit in public places (well, anywhere really) either, whether or not I'm with my children.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 08/01/2014 14:49

I don't know whether educating the teens was effective or not but I'm surprised at your DH being so squeamish about you talking of childbirth matters. You should be able to talk to him about them, surely?

redexpat · 08/01/2014 14:50

I love that you went to their level. That'll teach em.

DolomitesDonkey · 08/01/2014 14:51

So basically you lowered yourself to their level?

Original poster
PenguinofDeath · 08/01/2014 14:56

Do you think I did lower myself to their level? I retaliated, but to me their conversation was offensive, mysoginistic and unpleasant. To them my conversation was just unpleasant, no? With a son I've been thinking a lot about men's attitudes to women and it was depressing to hear blokes close to my age sharing such attitudes.

He's not overly squeamish but doesn't much like blood. He joined in, just said after he felt a bit uncomfortable.

OP posts:
DolomitesDonkey · 08/01/2014 15:03

You lowered yourself because you chose to deliberately discuss a topic at volume, which most would feel is not appropriate for public transport and having shoved down their throat.

LoonvanBoon · 08/01/2014 15:07

Do those people who think the OP lowered herself to their level really think there is an equivalence between: a)talking in explicit, disrespectful, misogynistic terms about women & b) talking explicitly about childbirth in a way which may well give TMI, but which is neither intrinsically offensive nor indicative of contempt for other human beings?

DoJo · 08/01/2014 16:25

I think the OP lowered herself to their level by having a conversation that nobody else wanted to hear at a volume that would probably have been audible to more people than just her intended targets. Given that this was in response to hearing something she 'assumed' was porn, I'm not sure it was necessary, however if she achieved her goal then I suppose there's something to be gained from it.
Without knowing more about the language used, I am not sure that discussion of conquests is inherently sexist, but if the OP didn't want to hear it then asking politely should have been enough.

WilsonFrickett · 08/01/2014 16:26

You didn't lower yourself to their level. Your discussion was perhaps TMI and not suitable for a public airing, but in itself was neither disrespectful or misogynistic. Or indeed misandric, come to that.

CrapBag · 08/01/2014 16:33

YANBU.

They were asked twice, and politely, to keep their horrible conversation down, they didn't so you made them see what it was like. They obviously learnt that way.

Good for you I say. I also don't think you lowered yourself to their level, you were showing them what they are subjecting other passengers too.

GlitzAndGiggles · 08/01/2014 16:35

Sorry but you only get full praise if you mention delivering the placenta too. Haha

Original poster
PenguinofDeath · 08/01/2014 16:43

The videos were the icing on the cake dojo we had already asked them politely twice to just keep their voices down.

The language in itself wasn't all that bad, I took offence at thinks like travelling to Spain to "smash Spanish women" and that he didn't want to break up with his gf (who he was cheating on) because she is a "good f*ck." when asked if he felt bad about (the cheating) he implied his gf wasn't visiting him enough (it seemed she lived back in the uk and was where he'd just come back from). So not bad language as such, I'm just sick of hearing women talked about only in terms of a shag! It was a long journey...

I can't be sure there were no other english speakers who could have understood my childbirth conversation, although I don't think so.

OP posts:
DoJo · 11/01/2014 00:14

Sorry - from your OP it sounded as though they had stopped the conversation after you and your husband had asked them to. If they had carried on and added videos to the mix, then I suppose you weren't left with many options.
Hpwever, I don't think that maintaining a relationship with someone for purely physical reasons is necessarily sexist - plenty of women do the same (more, in my experience although I accept that's anecdotal so hardly significant). I'm not sure about 'smash' - if it has come to be just another slang term for 'shag' or similar then it's not really sexist either, but if it's used solely by men about women then, again, I agree (although I now feel very old having effectively just said 'is that what the kids are calling it these days?').

meganorks · 11/01/2014 02:16

Personally I don't really think anyone has the right to dictate what other people talk about in public. Telling them to keep it down fair enough though if they are being really loud.