to wish people would use the correct name for my country?

[Buttercup2926]

I love living in the UK but I do wish people were better educated about the country right next door. Particularly its name.

The Constitution of Ireland sets out that there are two official names for the country, Ireland and Éire. Éire should only be used when speaking in the Irish language. Therefore it is correct for people in the UK to say Ireland when talking about that fab country next door!

Northern Ireland is a seperate place and is part of the UK.

Republic of Ireland is a description as opposed to a name. For political reasons FIFA forces the football team to use this name.

The term 'Southern Ireland' is very offensive and should not be used ever. It has strong historical connotations and was used by the English government as a way to avoid recognising the independence of Ireland. I understand that people genuinely do not know this and don't always mean to be offensive as so many people in England use it so casually.

I often see on here people referring to Irish accents and sayings as 'regional'. This is incorrect, Ireland is not a region of the UK no more than France or Spain are.

So when I go to visit my Mum an hour west of Cork, is it wrong to say I am off to Southern Ireland - it is meant as in the South of Ireland? I am British, not Irish, BTW.

Was talking to someone today about Ireland - we chatted about the West Coast of Ireland. Does that cause offence too?

I am baffled?

I live in Southern England and am not offended in the slightest!

Chocolate, that would not be at all offensive.

Chocolate - the comparison between Southern England and Southern Ireland just doesn't work, due to the different histories - Southern England is just a descriptor. Southern Ireland is an historic anomaly and a lazy (and perhaps unknowing) way of dismissing the nation-state of the Republic of Ireland.

Never ever heard of the tern south being offensive (I live in the north). My friends from Ireland often refer as heading home to the south. I don't think people mean to be offensive calling it the south. Ireland is one bit of land so it's just easier to use the terms north and south to differentiate.

Not originally being from here I can vouch that most people on the 'mainland' (another hated term), rarely know the difference between the two parts of the island of Ireland and don't really care. Most people don't even realise Northern Ireland is part of the uk (especially bloody eBay sellers using Royal Mail)

Just wanted to add that when I moved here the term 'the Island of Ireland' said by politicians all the time really made me giggle but iv discovered its the only way to described the whole island without offending anyone.

FFS people think us Norn Irish get het up about names (flags parades and anything else you can think of) Don't you lot jump on the bandwagon until now you were "normal"
Haven't read the whole thread [yawn]

Also do you not think its a bit weird that the history of the island of Island is completely skipped in our schools in England. When comparing school times with friends in NI, they are taught all about it (slant depends on your schools preference - only joking - well a little bit)

Quint: I'm not sure you can complain about people not being able to pronounce a name due to it containing sounds that don't exist in English.

Names such as Dorte are very difficult for English speaking people to pronounce, there's no malice there.

I can't pronounce my OH's name but luckily he doesn't hold it against me or the other 95% of people in the UK who cannot pronounce it either.

Esp in the world of politics. For years the Conservative Party were utterly hamstrung by the Unionist vote in Parliament, but there is scant mention of this fact. As dear Robert Kee indicated, when the Tories are in power, the Unionist faction of a v large party could more or less dictate policy on "The Irish Question". Whereas in reality the Cons would have gladly washed their hands of NI.

But more relevant to the OP, how many people know that Lincolnshire and North Lincolnshire are two different counties?

North East Lincolnshire is another county again.

I love the blame game they suck unsuspecting non NI or Irish into the show and baffle them with NI political humour

I am not sure how much they learn in secondary school as my DCs are younger but I get the feeling that the teaching of the history and geography of the British Isles is severely lacking. Children seem to know very little about the country in which the live and would struggle to point out major cities or counties on a map. Where we are on a map in relation to our neighbours and our history relationship with them is surely very important.

My GCSE History classes do their controlled assessment on Northern Ireland. It used to be a right bugger as things changed every two minutes and by the time you sent it for moderation what they had written bore little resemblance to the actual state of the peace process. I'd be happy to never again have to explain the distinctions between Unionists, Loyalists, Nationalists and Republicans.

Seriously though, there is very little time given in the curriculum both at primary and secondary school for teaching History and Geography. People always froth and say 'kids should be taught this at school' but it does get impossible. History is compulsory only to the end of KS3, by which time my lot have covered Romans, Medieval, Tudor, Making of the UK, Empire, Slavery, extension of the franchise, WW1, inter-war years, WW2, scientific revolution, industrial revolution, post-war Britain, rights and freedoms. Ireland does get 3 lessons in there.

The thing is, in Dutch primary schools they do (rather tediously) learn all the provinces and their principle cities. It's considered important. Maybe they should do the same in the UK as it's so damn complicated?

I only teach Geography if the timetable doesn't work properly, but that is also stuffed full of content. Lots of people want lots of different stuff to be taught as it is so important, but something has to give. I get two 50 minute lessons a week to teach KS3 and I know that is a lot more than some schools give to Humanities subjects.

As a subject, geography isn't actually about pointing out places on a map, or naming capital cities and all the other shite everyone imagines when you tell them you've got a geography degree.

Thanks for this OP - always useful to be informed xxx

Lived in Ireland for many years, and loads of our Irish friends and neighbours referred to themselves as living both in the Republic and as living in Southern Ireland.

Yes, but again it's geographically correct for someone living in Northern Ireland to say that they're 'heading south' for the holidays or 'going down south' or whatever. If they say that they're going to 'Southern Ireland' for their holidays, however, that's a different story. Unless they're from Cork / Munster.

Hope that clears it up!

In fact the Discovering Tourism board, based in Limerick, offers what they call a Southern Ireland tour, taking in Galway and Dublin, as well as Cork and Kerry.

Discovering Ireland tourism board. Sorry.

I think people are just intrinsically lazy. And if it's something they don't really care about, they can't be bothered to correct themselves. It isn't hard though. Take your feet for example. There are components in you feet called tarsals. Then there are other components called metatarsals. It should be as simple with Ireland and Northern Ireland.

Maybe it's not generally taught in UK schools. Historically the whole island was just one country. Northern Ireland is a relatively new state created where a separate state didn't exist before. Maybe it's muddled in people's consciousness.

It was the descendents of the Normans (recycled vikings as Bryan Sykes says) who had conquered England who came along and invaded large areas of Ireland. Historical Ireland, that is, the whole island. Thus it was linked to Norman England. The Norman king of England wanted to make sure his Norman lords in Ireland did not create a rival Norman Kingdom in Ireland so he introduced the Lordship of Ireland. Areas went to and fro between Gaelic and Norman ('English') rule for a good while. Interestingly, those first Normans were known as 'old English' (even though they weren't really) to distinguish them from the later lot. It developed from there..

As as aside, a lot of the Irish port towns (and others) were founded by the vikings. The Danish Longship Museum site refers to the descendents of the viking settlers in Waterford in the 11th century. In the tangled web of history, it's ironic how descendents of vikings in Ireland were probably part of the irish forces fending off the invasion of the descendents of vikings from Normandy.

Sorry for going off piste, but I've started so...

Mind you, I think a lot of the vikings in Ireland (outside Dublin) were Norwegian. Most in England were Danes, weren't they?

Well it's great that you feel so passionate about it, but expecting British people to be up to speed with this is like expecting us to understand the difference between Holland and The Netherlands. We don't. The Dutch don't let it consume them though, and I suggest you don't either. After all, we are just a bunch of clueless foreigners.

Not hard though is it? The Netherlands thing?

Most Scottish/Welsh and Northern Irish seem to be able to grasp that England and the UK are not the same thing, and I don't think they have been proven to be any more intelligent than the average English person.

Same goes for the Ireland.