to think she should take it on the chin (work party)

[harriet247]

My very good friend is in a shit load of trouble over staff works do, I worked for her before leaving for mat leave and we became good friends.
The place is very cliquey and bitchy and my friend and three others were overhead laying into their manager and her assistant in the toilets. All very very drunk and have been pulled in today and been told they acted disgracfully.
I know the others too socially but they arent 'serious'members of staff.
My friend NEEDS this job, she has no other income,is single and has responsibilities.
At the moment she is waxing lyrical about how they're all bitches,nobody heard them bitching,she was more pissed last year and like fuck will she apologise but there is a very real possibility that she will be fired Thursday at a review.
Ive told her to write a letter of apology but she is so riled up and indignant and egged on by the other 3 that she is acting like an idiot.
She is normally a lovely kind generous person but alcohol is not her friend.
I thought I would show her this thread to garner opinion.

If she needs the job, I think she must just suck it up at the review - apologise profusely, blame it all on festive over-indulgence, promise it will never happen again. If that works, then start looking for something else so she can hand in her notice, because life is too short to spend your days with people you can't stand.

If she wants to lose her job she's going the right way about it. She has to decide what's more important, her own stubbornness or her livelihood.

Grovel, grovel then grovel a bit more.

If she wants to act childish she has nobody to blame but herself if the worst happens.

Well she has to decide what is more important to her - her pride or putting food on the table

If you bitch about people then you have to accept it isn't going to go down well if you are caught. Being drunk is irrelevant. She was unprofessional

Wrt the other two - little fish always like a big fish to hide behind and boy do they like it when the big fish gets caught instead of them. They are colleagues not friends. She can't expect them to have her best interests at heart.

The company would be making a rod for it's own back if they were to fire her for this.

It's not very professional but it's not a sacksble offence to dislike your boss!

It is a potential sackable offence for a manager to bitch or complain about more senior managers at a work event. Depends on culture of the workplace, the language used in the complaining ie level of professionalism or lack of it.

They wont be able to fire her, where is the evidence? They were overheard? By whom? Alcohol had been had, mouths were loose, you cant believe one side over the other imo.

Actually Walter depending on the nature of the conversation employers can quite easily dismiss for this if the allegations are proven.

It is a common misconception that at a works party you can treat is a you would a personal social gathering. You are still bound by the terms of your contract to a certain degree.

She should apologise and learn "don't shit where you eat"

Yes, she should apologise.

She might not like it and feel she is justified in her 'slagging off' but it is wholly unprofessional. I work with senior management and although they won't sack her for it her card will definitely be marked. She needs to start sucking it up hard IMO.

I would advice her not to say any thing, verbal or written as then they have the proof.

No offence forty but this is terrible advice and certainly wouldn't go in her favour.

I agree with Vote Yes. A works party is not the same as a social gathering and it was a huge mistake to get 'very,very drunk'. The other people there are not your friends. They will not make allowances. If you embarrass yourself, they will remember and think less of you.

if 'nobody heard them bitching', how do management know about it? It sounds to me as if the matter has gone further than 'where's the proof?' Not everyone there was as pissed as your friend, it seems. The only thing she can do is apologise profusely and promise never to do it again. But that may not be enough. She needs to look for another job even if she manages to keep this one. People aren't going to forget this.

OP has your friend sought out advice from HR? Is she a Union Member?

actually as an employer you have same duty to protect workers from harassment as you do in the office so overheard drunken comments at works do can be viewed in exactly the same way as if made across the desk on a tuesday morning

she has to apologise she may get a verbal/ 1st written warningwarning it is unlikely to equate to gross misconduct but it could be misconduct

it is perfectly possible that the parties that overheard were not drunk and therefore more reliable wiitnesses

I still think it's a murky area.

What was said?

Who said it exactly?

Who heard it etc. etc.

Lots of ambiguity surrounding the situation.

This is very much gross misconduct. It's not like a court, the employer does not have to prove that it happened. If they have had reports and have investigated this comes under 'bringing the company into disrepute' and yes, is a stackable offence.

Under employment law, if the employer has good grounds for believing an act of misconduct took place then they can take disciplinary action. They do not need forensic levels of evidence - comments overheard by another person are perfectly acceptable. If the comments could have been overheard by someone not employed by the same company
then there is potential issue of bringing the company into disrepute too.

I think all were bitching in the toilet and one of the injured party so to speak heard the lot outside the door and was distraught. Bit of a drama queen anyway but nice enough and very well liked by management. I think she has called it bullying etc so its being taken very seriously- from what I can gather another person, seperate department also heard it and is backing it all up :( I know two of the girls can be very vicious but my friend is being held accountable.

Couldnt agree more with don't shit where you eat!!!

Oops, slow typing - x-posted with funky

It is murky however it depends on exactly what was said. If something was discussed that as a senior member of staff only she would be aware of it immediately puts truth in whatever the person who has overheard has said.

Statements will be taken from other employees regarding her behavior on the night and also about conversations they themselves had with her and what they might have overheard themselves.

In most disciplinary hearings there is room for interpretation due to the fact that very little evidence is in black and white (for example emails). If the conversation was overheard by another senior employee this will carry more weight. The job of HR is collect evidence and make an informed decision on what evidence they have.

I have myself had to conduct several disciplinary hearings of this nature and you will almost always find that if evidence has been received to warrant a suspension more will be brought to the table at the hearing.

It is hard but other employees statements are generally the only evidence to go off of and they are taken at face value providing they match up with other employees accounts.

The girls she was having this discussion with will also be questioned and from past experience I would highly doubt they will cover up what was said.

she has called it bullying because that is what it sounds like it was!

Since your friend is senior to the others involved, she's bound to get most of the blame. She should have been setting an example, not joining in.

Tell her to take this very seriously, she'll have it on her CV if she's given her cards.

She should apologise, act contrite and say it'll never happen again, if she values her career that is!

I have sacked someone for misconduct of this kind at a works Christmas party and slept just fine. Sounds like your friend has been seriously unprofessional OP...

Gthanks all - she has had a look and is mortified thetwat suggestions for the letter anyone?