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Original poster

To buy this land and risk upsetting the tenants next door

999 replies

Mrsdavidcaruso · 04/01/2014 12:31

Long story short. My house is at the back of a large house which was converted into flats last year. I own the freehold to my property and have had problems with the tenants of the flats parking on what is actually my land. It got bad when the LL of the large house 'rented' a part of my property to one of his tenants as an extra parking space and it took a long time and solicitors letters to get it all sorted.

I also had to spend money on getting bollards and a fence to ensure no-one parked on my property.

My property is at the end of a T shape and I part is used as a passage to my house ( I have legal access over it) and a parking area for 5 cars rented by the LL to his tenants

However because of all the problems my solicitor has done some digging to ensure my legal right of way and that nothing comes back to bite me on the bum with the owners of the large house.

It then got interesting - it seems that the LL bought the large house at auction on a 99 year lease. My Solicitor saw the legal pack and there was no mention of the land on the paperwork.

He has now found out through the freeholder that the land does not actually belong to the large house but to the house next door.

The freeholder of the house next door has confirmed yes its his land but as he does not live in the house was unaware that the LL of the large house was using it as far as he was aware only I had access to it.

He has now contacted my Solicitors and offered to sell me the land, If I don’t want to buy he is going to offer the LL the chance to lease it from him but if he does that I am worried about my own access across it.

I am very tempted I can enlarge my garden and my husband (who rents a garage ) can also park his car on the property we can afford it and it may increase the value of my house and provide a safer environment for my DS and bump when he/she arrives.

But that is not going to sit well with the tenants of the large house and I can forsee huge problems with them as a couple were very abusive to me during the problem with the parking before.

I have a couple of weeks to decide. I know it would not fair to the tenants but its something they will have to take up with their LL as either he has been badly advised/mistaken or is chancing his arm renting out parking spaces when he knows its not his land (I suspect the latter).

According to my Solicitor there would be no legal or planning issues if I wanted to change the area to a larger garden (although I will check with the council myself)

So would I be UR to buy it

OP posts:
Wibblypiglikesbananas · 04/01/2014 22:13

Of course you buy it. And if you can afford to buy it, you can presumably afford legal action against the idiot tenants or landlord if things kick off again. Not that you should have to resort to this but having just read your last thread, they all sound deranged!

I'm a landlord and there is no way on earth I'd try to charge a tenant for a space that doesn't even belong to me - the mind boggles!

SoupDragon · 04/01/2014 22:24

From the OPs original thread, "the LL only bought the house 10 months ago"

ChasedByBees · 04/01/2014 22:24

Thank god you're going to buy it!

wishful75 · 04/01/2014 22:36

But ROWs certainly and I would suspect adverse possession too ( at least it used to be the case) can be claimed through cumulative user evidence, it doesnt have to be single person ownership.

FryOneFatManic · 04/01/2014 22:43

Adverse possession requires someone using that land over a number of years.

I understand the LL only bought the house a matter of months ago from some posts on here and in other thread.

And it doesn't seem as if the tenants have been there that long either.

So I doubt whether adverse possession would apply.

In any case, the OP already has a solicitor, who would no doubt be able to sort this out.

wishful75 · 04/01/2014 22:53

Im not sure if im explaining myself well but it used to be the case at any rate that a previous owner/squatter's evidence of adverse possession could be counted towards the existing squatter's evidence of time usage in order to achieve the total qualifying years. Simply because the existing LL has owned the property for a short period may not necessarily deny an adverse possession application. We simply cant know that based on the facts we have here.

limitedperiodonly · 04/01/2014 22:58

wishful I've done it. But it takes a bit of time - 10 or 12 years of excluding the freeholder. I don't remember exactly the period but after it then you get a limited title and then after about 20 years you get a full title.

I can bore you with the rules but it's not relevant to the OP.

I'm not a solicitor but I had to go into this and AFAIK her neighbour does not have adverse possession.

Really. I really, really think that. Really.

Though of course I'd advise talking to a legally-qualified person.

Did I make that clear?

It's just annoying me that people are raising it because it's really scary when people do that. Especially over a weekend when you can't do anything but worry. Especially when they know shit.

But what do I know? I've just been there.

OP, con't worry. Call your solicitor on Monday.

limitedperiodonly · 04/01/2014 23:00

It'll be fine. Ignore the people chuntering on about adverse possession/squatters rights.

Sallyingforth · 04/01/2014 23:05

OP just go down to the solicitor on Monday morning and tell him to get a move on. Don't let it drag out.

thegreylady · 04/01/2014 23:06

Buy it and fence it quickly and without discussion with the ll or tenants of the other property.

limitedperiodonly · 04/01/2014 23:09

Actually wishful I don't know whether the OP is going to be scared or that's your intention, but can you just stop doing it?

Because you're not correct and are therefore not being helpful.

And I'm sure that's not what you'd want to do Smile

Let's just refer OP to the legal forum or a solicitor, eh?

rockybalboa · 04/01/2014 23:18

Buy it! I think I remember you posting previously about the LL renting out part of your land. Bollocks to upsetting the tenants.

Original poster
Mrsdavidcaruso · 04/01/2014 23:39

Hi thanks for the info on adverse possession the LL bought the leasehold of the property last year, before that it was vacant for a year and before that it was a nursing home for twenty years, before that it was a private home. My house was 'granny house' when it was a private house and when it was made into a nursing home was lived in by the matron of the home. The land had always been owned by the house next door but part of the land (which is my garden) was purchased by the nursing home to add to the freehold of my house in 1996 and access to my house was granted in the same year so when I bought the house the land and access were shown in the legal documents

I have not seen the legal pack that came with the large house when it was sold at auction but my solicitor has which made him do some digging

The freeholder of the house next door was aware that I had legal access over the land to my house, but he does not live in the house as its been changed from residential to commercial use and the company who rent it have never asked to use the land.

It was not until my Solicitor found out he owned the freehold and asked him A about my legal access across it and B if he had leased or sold the land to the LL. He did this as I was still having problems with the tenants and he wanted to send a letter to the LL and wanted all the facts in place - he is expensive but a very good solicitor on a mission
as the LL had ignored some of his letters and had been evasive in the answers that he gave to other letters.

I will take before and after pics and post them when it is sorted out

Thank again for all your support now I know I am doing the right thing

OP posts:
wowfudge · 05/01/2014 00:17

Buy it. No brainer and VVR!

VivaLeBeaver · 05/01/2014 08:15

I remember your first thread, glad you're buying it.

MidniteScribbler · 05/01/2014 08:27

Why do you care about upsetting the tenants? They didn't care about upsetting you.

Buy it, build a great big FO (fuck off) fence with a gate.

EauRouge · 05/01/2014 08:29

I remember the original thread too. What a piss-taker the LL is. I'm glad you've decided to buy the land, I hope you enjoy your new garden and that the tenants get the message that the LL is at fault, not you.

Toecheese · 05/01/2014 08:34

Well done. Great to hear you are going for it.

After you have bought the land, post polite letters to all the folk who park on your land explaining that the owners (next door and not the landlord) offered you the land and you have bought it. You regret to inform them that they will need to make other arrangements for parking from x date.

Chelvis · 05/01/2014 08:39

Unanimous mumsnet thread? Must be one for classics!

Don't build a fence though - do a hedge. With this in the middle

adlestrop.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/topiary_finger.jpg

FieryChipotle · 05/01/2014 08:39

I also remember the first thread and I am so glad that you are able to buy this land! It will prevent so many issues in the future, even if it is a pain in the short term.

FannyFifer · 05/01/2014 08:45

I remember your other thread as well.

This really is ace, buy it absolutely.

RandomMess · 05/01/2014 08:59

It sounds like you have a fantastic solicitor. This is such a gift, I wonder if the freeholder is actually as incensed as you and wants to get it sorted one way or the other for good.

MostlyFine · 05/01/2014 09:00

Am in love with that topiary. And, yes, but the property lol

SoupDragon · 05/01/2014 09:04

After you have bought the land, post polite letters to all the folk who park on your land explaining that the owners (next door and not the landlord) offered you the land and you have bought it. You regret to inform them that they will need to make other arrangements for parking from x date.

My only change to this would be to miss out the part about when the and was purchased and just say "As the legal owner of the land, I am writing to inform you that..."

I wonder if, as part of the planning permission to convert the house to flats, the LL was required to provide a certain number of parking spaces.

honeybeeridiculous · 05/01/2014 09:06

Please can someone link to the old thread so
I can fully understand what a knob the LL is,
I love a happy ending. Go OP Grin

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