To buy this land and risk upsetting the tenants next door

[Mrsdavidcaruso]

Long story short. My house is at the back of a large house which was converted into flats last year. I own the freehold to my property and have had problems with the tenants of the flats parking on what is actually my land. It got bad when the LL of the large house 'rented' a part of my property to one of his tenants as an extra parking space and it took a long time and solicitors letters to get it all sorted.

I also had to spend money on getting bollards and a fence to ensure no-one parked on my property.

My property is at the end of a T shape and I part is used as a passage to my house ( I have legal access over it) and a parking area for 5 cars rented by the LL to his tenants

However because of all the problems my solicitor has done some digging to ensure my legal right of way and that nothing comes back to bite me on the bum with the owners of the large house.

It then got interesting - it seems that the LL bought the large house at auction on a 99 year lease. My Solicitor saw the legal pack and there was no mention of the land on the paperwork.

He has now found out through the freeholder that the land does not actually belong to the large house but to the house next door.

The freeholder of the house next door has confirmed yes its his land but as he does not live in the house was unaware that the LL of the large house was using it as far as he was aware only I had access to it.

He has now contacted my Solicitors and offered to sell me the land, If I don’t want to buy he is going to offer the LL the chance to lease it from him but if he does that I am worried about my own access across it.

I am very tempted I can enlarge my garden and my husband (who rents a garage ) can also park his car on the property we can afford it and it may increase the value of my house and provide a safer environment for my DS and bump when he/she arrives.

But that is not going to sit well with the tenants of the large house and I can forsee huge problems with them as a couple were very abusive to me during the problem with the parking before.

I have a couple of weeks to decide. I know it would not fair to the tenants but its something they will have to take up with their LL as either he has been badly advised/mistaken or is chancing his arm renting out parking spaces when he knows its not his land (I suspect the latter).

According to my Solicitor there would be no legal or planning issues if I wanted to change the area to a larger garden (although I will check with the council myself)

So would I be UR to buy it

Original thread can be found here

Has the owner of the land agreed to sell it to you? In their position I would probably start a bidding war.... sorry....

So, looking at the other thread, LL was charging the tenants extra rent for your parking space; and it now turns out that he is presumably charging them for parking on some more land that doesn't belong to him. This is a fairly major fraud, isn't it?

Buy it!!!

Thats tre nenny but taking him to court coukd cost thousands in costs, only fir a fine to be issued that he probably wouldn't pay anyway.

That's the sad truth about civil cases.

Limited period only

im sorry I'm not sure that I have done anything to provoke your response but I do actually know what I'm talking about. I used to be a local government solicitor of many years standing and have probly dealt with more ROW issues and adverse possession complaints than the average high street solicitor. We can simply speculate at this moment in time but you can't possibly know definitely know the success or otherwise of a potential application in this case.

FWIW the ll will probably never pursue this course but imo its foolish to dismiss the outside possibility.

All about taking people to court to move their cars from private land is barmy.

'If you leave your vehicle here it will be towed' and They pay the tow company to release their vehicle. If they want to take her to court to gain permission to Park there then they can do that but there is no need for the owner of a piece of land to take a person to court to move a car.

Hi again thanks for the replies - there will not be a bidding war between us and the LL - its an Island thing - We are local and the LL is on the mainland - we tend to take care of our own here . The FH has assured me that as he had a verbal agreement he will honour it

I am not sure if it is fraud the LL is a novice and I think he got in over his head I have heard stories about incorrect boilers and other problems the tenants have had.

BTW thanks for the link to my other thread I had forgotten (blocked out?)
some of the nastiness reading it all again has stiffened my resolve.

Buy buy buy :) Good luck OP!

buy it and put a fence up.
Definitely.

The freeholder of the house next door was aware that I had legal access over the land to my house, but he does not live in the house as its been changed from residential to commercial use and the company who rent it have never asked to use the land.

Do the commercial company use the access? If not, can you buy the access at the same time as the land round the back. It will save on legal fees to bundle the two together.

Definitely buy it and don't feel guilty as they were nasty to you. I have a log cabin in my garden and it is fab.

Ok there are two issues here and you and everyone else are generally merging them.

Yes of course you should buy it.

Then you should think very carefully about whether and if so when you would change its use. Buying it won't cause too many issues, with either your neighbours or their landlord. But taking away parking spaces they thought they had a right to will cause huge problems. I am not arguing they deserve to keep them at all - but are you ready for the unpleasantness which will follow? It's horrible to live with neighbours who hate you.

How long are tenancies on your island? Are these current tenants likely to move in the next year or so or are they expecting to be there for ten years? If the former I would be tempted to manage it so you took back the space as each tenant left - that way the current tenants won't be crossed and just the LL will be pissed off but he's not local and isn't going to key your car in revenge!

I completely disagree.

Letting them continue to treat your property as if it was their own will simply feed their feeling of entitlement. "Why are you changing it now?" will be asked.

I say, the day after completion, have it ploughed up and erect signs saying "this site purchased by A&B for development. Any queries in writing to Messrs Hobgoblin and Smurf LLP, Jarndyce Chambers"

If you felt like it, you could leave it dug up (unusable for parking) and fenced or blocked with pallets of blocks for a few months while they get used to the idea.

I think digging it up and putting up a sign would be the best idea, as they will get the idea without knowing it's you who has bought it. Then once it's all calmed and they are parking elsewhere you can go ahead and add it to your garden.

Have you been in touch with the owner yet?!

Third vote for PigletJohn's approach. Having read your previous OP, these tenants were verbally abusive when you tried to be polite and reasonable with them and explain the facts.

You are too nice to imagine the hatred that's going to be thrown your way. Your lying LL is also going to spin a tale about how you schemed and stole the land right from under him and how he had every intention to buy it. I wouldn't it put it past the LL to tell the tenants he's disputing your ownership and taking you to court and in the meantime (ie till their contract expires) they should just use the parking space.

Put up the sign. In a few months, start making it yours. When questioned, you say you purchased it off "XZY" company (name of billboard). Refuse to say further, saying I'm sorry but my property purchases are a private matter I don't discuss neighbors.

Another vote for PigletJohn's approach. Land bought by company, queries to Solicitor. Stay detached from it as much as possible.

Yes, these people are not going to take this easily, either the LL or the tenants, the tenants will assume the LL is telling the truth whatever he says. Buy it quickly and quietly, then put up a sign (I do think you will probably have to give them some notice to stop parking there, just to be fair, but your solicitor will know better about that) and don't speak to them at all. Good luck.

PigletJohn's anonymous approach sounds great. I hope it's easy to claim the other spaces while leaving yours free to park on.

Out skins like your solicitor is on the ball, I hope it goes smoothly.

It sounds like

I am glad you are going to buy it and love the idea of piglet John .

I would be very surprised if the vendor hasn't approached the LL and freeholder of the flats too.He needs it a lot more than you do.Why would he pass upon the pfofit you could make selling it on? And if his solicitor hasn't talked to himabout doing that, then he is failing to do his job!

Made a formal offer to buy the land today paperwork being drawn up and bacs payment being arranged. It will not be offered to either the freeholder of the large house or the LL and I will not be selling it on and making a profit.

My next step is looking speaking to the council to see if I need planning consent to enlarge the garden. I know I am going to need planning consent to put in a hard parking space with the correct material rather then the dirt patch being used now.