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AIBU?

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Original poster

To buy this land and risk upsetting the tenants next door

999 replies

Mrsdavidcaruso · 04/01/2014 12:31

Long story short. My house is at the back of a large house which was converted into flats last year. I own the freehold to my property and have had problems with the tenants of the flats parking on what is actually my land. It got bad when the LL of the large house 'rented' a part of my property to one of his tenants as an extra parking space and it took a long time and solicitors letters to get it all sorted.

I also had to spend money on getting bollards and a fence to ensure no-one parked on my property.

My property is at the end of a T shape and I part is used as a passage to my house ( I have legal access over it) and a parking area for 5 cars rented by the LL to his tenants

However because of all the problems my solicitor has done some digging to ensure my legal right of way and that nothing comes back to bite me on the bum with the owners of the large house.

It then got interesting - it seems that the LL bought the large house at auction on a 99 year lease. My Solicitor saw the legal pack and there was no mention of the land on the paperwork.

He has now found out through the freeholder that the land does not actually belong to the large house but to the house next door.

The freeholder of the house next door has confirmed yes its his land but as he does not live in the house was unaware that the LL of the large house was using it as far as he was aware only I had access to it.

He has now contacted my Solicitors and offered to sell me the land, If I don’t want to buy he is going to offer the LL the chance to lease it from him but if he does that I am worried about my own access across it.

I am very tempted I can enlarge my garden and my husband (who rents a garage ) can also park his car on the property we can afford it and it may increase the value of my house and provide a safer environment for my DS and bump when he/she arrives.

But that is not going to sit well with the tenants of the large house and I can forsee huge problems with them as a couple were very abusive to me during the problem with the parking before.

I have a couple of weeks to decide. I know it would not fair to the tenants but its something they will have to take up with their LL as either he has been badly advised/mistaken or is chancing his arm renting out parking spaces when he knows its not his land (I suspect the latter).

According to my Solicitor there would be no legal or planning issues if I wanted to change the area to a larger garden (although I will check with the council myself)

So would I be UR to buy it

OP posts:
Inertia · 04/01/2014 18:06

Definitely buy it quickly and get everything signed before the landowner tries to set up a bidding war between you and the landlord. Once you actually own the land you can think about how to address the other issues.

StrainingWaistband · 04/01/2014 18:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Nerfmother · 04/01/2014 18:22

Soup , that's why I said more info was needed but essentially - is it a separate piece of land or is it going to be part if the house and gardens. Seem to remember something about permitted sizes but I would really have to look that up.
My point was, it's always worth thinking about the implications of something that seems straightforward.

LadyMercy · 04/01/2014 18:32

OP, I'm sure your solicitor has thought of this, but i think you need to talk to him about how to protect yourself from a claim of adverse possession or squatters rights. If the landlord has been using/renting out this bit of land for a long time, without the actual owner objecting, he might try to claim it is his.

ProfPlumSpeaking · 04/01/2014 18:37

Buy it. The tenants' only gripe will be with the LL for "renting" them parking spaces that he had no right over. They could possibly sue him.

Adverse possession takes decades and should not be a problem.

Obviously, do it all calmly and reasonably - perhaps get your solicitor to alert those parking that they have no right to do so (without mentioning you to start with)?

minniebar · 04/01/2014 18:45

OP, any chance of a 'how it is now' and a 'how it will be' diagram??! Pretty please!
[winning smile]

MellowAutumn · 04/01/2014 18:46

Adverse possession is not even on the books

OddFodd · 04/01/2014 18:57

Yay! Well done OP - I remember your previous thread about how bloody awful the landlord of the other place was being.

I do like it when karma comes back to bite people on the arse :o

FreeWee · 04/01/2014 19:00

Oooh minnie yes I was thinking the same thing please OP!

limitedperiodonly · 04/01/2014 19:11

ladymercy you may not be intending to scare the OP with your talk of adverse possession but you may be doing it unintentionally.

And, as someone who's gone through it, your kind of input is not that welcome. I refer you to my post where I said I didn't sleep all weekend for worrying in a similar situation over nothing.

I'm not legally qualified, but IME her neighbour does not have adverse possession.

I could bore you with the rules, but I won't unless you really want me to.

Just trust one who's been through that fucking mill.

OP call your solicitor on Monday. I think it will be okay

UptheChimney · 04/01/2014 19:16

If the landlord has been using/renting out this bit of land for a long time, without the actual owner objecting, he might try to claim it is his

But no-one KNEW that the crap LL was charging his tenants for parking spaces that he had no right to! It was only when the OP insisted on using her land for her car that the LL's illegal behaviour became known. And that was only a couple of months ago, iirc.

Geckos48 · 04/01/2014 19:36

Op I am so pleased for you, it's so rare that karma works so quickly!

skinoncustard · 04/01/2014 19:50

Great decision, buy very quickly and very quietly, let us know when the hits the LL's fan!!!!

skinoncustard · 04/01/2014 19:52

S**t hits. Damn phone !!

Damnautocorrect · 04/01/2014 19:55

I remember your other thread, yes buy buy buy.

MrsBucketxx · 04/01/2014 20:00

Yes buy it I remember your thread from a while back.

meeeemo · 04/01/2014 20:02

yea go on buy it!

shoom · 04/01/2014 20:40

Your plans for the land sound great. Offering to allow the tenants or LL to continue using the parking spaces would probably cause loads of hassle- non-payment, disputes if one tenant parks in another's space, upkeep of the area, insurance / liability?... And I expect you'd have HMRC etc to deal with too.

BaaHumbug · 04/01/2014 20:50

Once you've bought the land, if you have any contact with the landlord do try and drop into the conversation that you would never have found out that he didn't own the car parking if he hadn't greedily tried to rent your space to his tenants. Grin

Collaborate · 04/01/2014 20:52

OP I haven't read all your responses, but make sure you speak to your solicitor about the possibility of the LL or tenants claiming adverse possession.

limitedperiodonly · 04/01/2014 21:08

The next door neighbour (LL) and his tenants do not have adverse possession.

Stop scaring her.

Sorry, OP if you're too sensible to be scared but it's really annoying when people do this.

NigellasDealer · 04/01/2014 21:12

adverse possession is really really hard to get btw

olympicsrock · 04/01/2014 22:00

Buy it asap and maybe get this thread deleted in case someone who knows tenant or landlord reads it.

Damnautocorrect · 04/01/2014 22:04

Please can you film it and post it on here when you've bought it and you do the big reveal. It's going to be epic

wishful75 · 04/01/2014 22:12

I don't understand why people are so dismissive of adverse possession (not wanting to scare anyone) as I've known several successful applications. Without knowing the exact individual circumstances of the landlord I certainly would not dismiss it.

The law has changed in recent years but if the landlord could prove that he reasonably believed the land was his over a period of years (which he could argue did by proving he was charging rent) then he might try his luck.

further to my previous reply, rights of way whilst not currently officially existing can certainly come into being by being claimed by an applicant based on 20 years usage. Its called presumed dedication and is actually the most common way that such rights are created. The 20 does not have to be by the same person so it could be evidence from a variety of people who have lived ont he property over a number of years.