to want to close my bank account after this gross invasion of privacy?

[somanymiles]

I went to get cash out of my bank account this morning to pay the builders (£6,000) and was told I could not take that amount out without hard copy proof of what I was spending the money on eg an invoice. I was given no notice of this so of course did not have anything except a quote on my phone which they did not accept, even though I offered to email it to them. This was not a question of confirming my identity- it was that they have a new policy where you gave to prove what you are spending your cash on. When I asked what the threshold was for the new policy I was told they were not allowed to tell me. I am furious. Surely what I spend my money on us nobodies business but mine. It certainly isn't HSBC's business.I am thinking of closing my accounts there with all the hassle that will entail. AIBU?

Interesting to read this op.... Read Excatly the same a week ago on the money saving expert forum...

This happened to me repeatedly a few years ago when we were taking out cash for our house renovations. In the end I told them I was buying cocaine with it, and gun running for the IRA. They dutifully wrote that on their stupid forms and I never heard a word.

Giving out the threshold limit would be silly as it would basically be giving direct instructions of how to circumvent the money-laundering check.

Well after failing to explain why you want that amount of cash I can see that but I would have though a prior inquiry as to limits would be acceptable or a phone call to call center to find out the processes to get a one of payment out of account would be acceptable. Mind you that does require mindset of expecting problems - one I think both DH and I have but then we've dealt with banks before.

I have to say I don't get why £1000 that one poster got would get an inquiry - that just a few days withdrawal from cash machines - and we found once from stolen card in post max 300 before midnight and 300 after then same next day doesn't always flag up as suspicious even when it's not normal behavior or in same city as us.

There may well be some law requiring them to ask - though it is clearly pointless if you can invent a reason, but I think it should be made clear that it's not in any way immoral or shameful to withdraw the money. There is also nothing intrinsically wrong with paying a bill with cash.

This is not a cashier on a power trip. It's new HSBC policy.

Any withdrawal of a large amount in cash you will HAVE to provide proof, or the funds will not be released to you. It's to do with new stringent anti Money laundering regs that have been introduced bank wide over the past 3 months. Anyone applying for any lending will have experienced this full force as there are numerous questions that are now asked in regards to what you do, where you're from, Countries you have links with, what you want funds for, etc.

HSBC now make the majority of their profit from international interests and corporate business customers. Their main concern now is not getting caught up in any scandals again or they risk losing their banking licence. For your standard small time personal or business customer, they couldn't give a fuck if you leave and take business elsewhere as you're not making them any money anyway! And money laundering regs are much more of a priority.

So by all means complain or leave but the honest truth is HSBC have bigger fish to fry and won't cry any tears over it!

Go with the bank that will do the best for YOU. Don't stamp your feet or try to make a point as HSBC simply do not give a shit. And I say that as an employee of them.

Giving out the threshold limit would be silly

If that's really what they think they are incredibly naive.

Good morning I'd like to draw out £6k please.
"You'll need to fill in a form"
Okay, I'd like to draw out £5k please.
"You'll still need to fill in a form"
Okay, I'd like to draw out £4k please.
"You'll still need to fill in a form"
Okay, I'd like to draw out £3k please.
"That's fine"

Sorted.

So what would happen if you said right, I'm not having this. I want to close my account right now. Give me all my money.

Would they refuse to do so?

People don't HAVE to keep their money in a bank, so if they said they would transfer it to any new account and you said no, you intend to keep it all in cash, they couldn't stop you. What would they do?

Just curious.

OP? Was it took out in cash because materials were needed urgently. Assuming they may be some penalty clauses relevant?

No they can't refuse to do so HEC they have to keep to their side of the contract too. If you close your account they have to return all moneys owed to you. They did me for DM. Reluctantly.

Crescent- Money laundering works by filtering “dirty” money through a number of bank accounts and transactions, either through use of a third party or a business. By doing this, they can give the funds the appearance of coming from a legitimate source-

1. Introduce the cash into the financial system ("placement”)
2. Carry out complex financial transactions to hide the illegal source ("layering")
3. Release the –-hounds-- funds ("integration")

So let’s say a drug dealer gets a few 10’s of thousands in some nefarious plan that’s come off. He can’t lodge the money into his own account, but neither can he stash it under his bed in case someone nicks it. So, he might break the funds down into smaller chunks and give it to a number of different people to lodge into their own accounts- his mum, girlfriend, brother, someone who owes him a favour, etc. They may well hold the funds in their account until he wants cash, or they may transfer it to him at a later date. Several transfers of £1,500 or less will attract less attention than a bulk, cash deposit of £10,000.

That’s why you’re sometimes asked when depositing money. Not because they think you’ll admit to them that you’re operating an illegal operation, but because they’re looking for how you react in conjunction with the pattern of activity on your account. In this part of the UK money laundering and connected activities are a big problem, so I for one don’t have a problem with a cashier doing their job and asking me a few discrete questions.

There are recognised forms of money laundering that use deposits and withdrawal of cash.

If the op goes back to branch and decides to close her account and gives details of another bank account to transfer the balance to, providing there are no 'concerns' about her account or other activity that could be suspicious, it would just be done.

If HSBC have genuine suspicions that money laundering may be taking place on an account in general, then yes, they would refuse to close it and would block access to funds too. All transactions would be inhibited whilst the investigation was ongoing and you (general) could shout and threaten as loud as you wanted, they'd still leave you with no access to your own account.

This is rare though - and it wouldn't even be on the radar for a measly couple of hundred or thousand as a balance.

The one thing that you only realise when you work for a bank is just how riduculous many complainers make themselves look. They shout and scream and threaten to take their balance of £60k 'elsewhere'. They don't realise that to the member of staff they're shouting at, who spends all day looking at customer balances of hundreds of thousands, or a few million, that £60k is the equivalent of a toddlers pocket money to HSBC.

The one thing that you only realise when you work for a bank is just how riduculous many complainers make themselves look. They shout and scream and threaten to take their balance of £60k 'elsewhere'. They don't realise that to the member of staff they're shouting at, who spends all day looking at customer balances of hundreds of thousands, or a few million, that £60k is the equivalent of a toddlers pocket money to HSBC.

It does sound arrogant, but it's very very true. HSBC isn't even a 'savings focused' bank so they probably wouldn't care much at all.

CraicDealer - I am a bit confused. In your example of the drug money - how is the money dirty? I accept that the money has been obtained by illegal activities - but the money itself would presumably be legal tender. Therefore why is there a problem with it going into the system?. Surely the illegal activity is the selling of the drugs initially and how would that be proved by him putting £10k in his bank? Also how on the earth would it be proven, or even realised, that a group of people depositing £1500 are related in some way?

I don't get it. Or are you talking dodgy fake money? That I could get - it would make sense to put that in the banks in small quantities here and there.

Drug money is 'dirty money' as it has been gained through illegal activity.

Just because its legal tender doesn't mean the bank would want it.

The process of 'placement, layering and integration' is how criminals deposit transfer and then withdraw money so it cannot be connected to the illegal activity.

They are asking questions because it is really out of the ordinary for a personal customer to need to withdraw such a large sum of cash. Why won't the builders accept a faster payment or Bankers draft for the amount you are need to pay? If they insist on being paid in cash, then there is normally only one reason for it.

It will have flagged up as an unusual transaction and quite rightly so.

I think money laundering and the duty to report it applies to tax evasion. So £6k in cash to a builder would raise some questions. As anyone who works in financial services knows - the obligation to report it is personal not corporate so the cashier would have been putting her job on the line if she hadn't asked. HSBC are having a massive tighten up after all their problems so they are probably extra demanding now. They are tossers though.

Princess - it is an arrogant attitude I suppose. But as a bank worker, you do get very desensitised to money.

I've had conversations with DH where I've told him about a really abusive arsehole i've had shouting at me about something or other. He's asked something like 'Oh, did he have a load of money' and my reply has been 'Nah, piddly, about £90k in savings is all'. Then realised that DH is looking at me like I'm a mentalist. When I've spent all day dealing with Corporate customers with Money Markets with £2.5m in though, you can't help but (internally) roll your eyes at the customer with less than £100k who's kicking off and acting like they're single handedly keeping the bank afloat by gracing them with their custom.

Definitely agree this is a money laundering issue. In this day and age people working in cash is unusual and moving large sums around will have caused it to flag up.

More of a concern than a bank doing its job, it also seems a bit suspicious that you are paying in cash at all - why does your builder not want a cheque or the money to go straight into his bank account which is a lot easier all round? I would be concerned that your builder is having money troubles, which could potentially leave you out of pocket and with a half finished building project if you are paying up front, or he is dodging the tax man.

Why is £6000 to pay builders questionable?
It's not illegal to carry cash.

I was told earlier this year that the enquiry threshold was £5,000. I have my business and private accounts with HSBC. It's money laundering checks. The same applies to solicitors. You have to show a money trail when paying funds into a solicitor's account.

If they may not be prepared to return your money to you when you need it then it is actually safer elsewhere. After all there's no practical difference between a thief taking your money and not giving it back and a bank doing the same thing.

Maybe we can return to a barter economy and let the banks just lend money to each other.

On the subject of laundered money. It's not that the money has anything wrong with it, but criminals have to move money around to disguise the fact that they have an unexplained income. Keeping an eye on the money is just one means of finding the criminals.

It's not quite true that banks don't want money like that. They just don't want to be caught handling money like that as there are penalties now.

You'd be mad to pay a builder in cash with no invoice. You'd have no protection from a cowboy builder. They would be off into the night with your cash before you were even aware there was a problem.

I had money laundering training when I worked for a bank (Barclays) 14 yrs ago. They were very strict even then. There is nothing new in this and it was made very clear that the legislation put the individual at risk of prosecution as well as the employer.