to want to close my bank account after this gross invasion of privacy?

[somanymiles]

I went to get cash out of my bank account this morning to pay the builders (£6,000) and was told I could not take that amount out without hard copy proof of what I was spending the money on eg an invoice. I was given no notice of this so of course did not have anything except a quote on my phone which they did not accept, even though I offered to email it to them. This was not a question of confirming my identity- it was that they have a new policy where you gave to prove what you are spending your cash on. When I asked what the threshold was for the new policy I was told they were not allowed to tell me. I am furious. Surely what I spend my money on us nobodies business but mine. It certainly isn't HSBC's business.I am thinking of closing my accounts there with all the hassle that will entail. AIBU?

I had something similar happen and it was for a deposit for a flat. I needed cash to pay into another bank for bank transfer. Cashier seemed ok with answer and when I queried why she asked it was for money laundering prevention and advised calling the branch 24 hours in advance if taking out a large cash amount.

If the cashier was rude you could complain. Something to consider is that if you are paying the builder in cash are you enabling him to avoid declaring the income?

I had this conversation with two friends who both work for HSBC the other night. If they don't follow these Government guidelines they get the sack.

There are two issues here. Money laundering and possible Tax evasion because you want to pay in cash. Some of the banks (they told me) are even stricter on the amount.

They did tell me the amount but I can't remember what it was.

How can they insist on seeing an invoice for a product or service you have not yet bought?
Most of the time the only paperwork I get is a receipt after the purchase. Even when I bought my car (in cash from a dealership) I didn't have an invoice in advance.

floppy, you would've got a laugh from me! The reason you were asked, aside from the anti-money laundering regs, is that large deposits are seen as a sales opportunity. If it was being put away for a "rainy day" or a longer term then there's a chance there's another product which would suit better, rather than a current a/c or bog standard savings account.

On a very sad note, a colleague of mine had a customer who was depositing a cheque for £250K and asked where it had come from. It turned out the lady had lost a baby at birth due to medical incompetence and these were the damages the local trust was forced to pay. Cashiers genuinely don't mean (or want) to pry, it's just part of the job. Another colleague was the first to alert the bank that there was fraud occurring on an account, leading to a successful ML prosecution, so there is a point to it ultimately.

caitlin I pay tradesmen in cash, are you saying I'm commuting fraud because I don't have invoices? My builder pops over and replaces slates for me when they come lose, and just gives me the cost and I pay him. He's not VAT registered as far as I am aware, but what business is it of mine how he runs his company?

luckily I knew to use my system of smaller withdrawals over a period of time, but what would HSBC do, not allow me my own money?

We had to do that for roofers which was couple of hundred - but I can't image having 10 grand in cash lying around or being carried about.

Cheques or on-line banking directly to accounts have been used in rare events we've dealt with thousands even when buying presents or contributing to items have been involved.

I had this with a Santander account when I paid for my kitchen.

I wanted to withdraw 3k and they eventually said no as it might leave them short of cash for other customers, as most small branches do not have large amounts of cash. This was told to me quite patronisingly, and I was furious, as they had already interrogated me as to what it was for and it had takes ages. Then I was told I could not have the money from my own account.

I told them I was closing my account and would require the full balance in cash to take to another bank and open another account, it was only at that point they let me have it. I left six months later.

Not the same but my very wealthy uncle once wanted to pay a cheque for £50,000 in town existing account, was told he needed to see a financial adviser and couldn't do it over the counter. Upshot was him closing all his accounts there and then (he waited for hours in bank to do this) and taking a cheque for £100,000's over the road to another bank. Manager coming out to try and stop him was too late because he was so pissed off by counter person's attitude. There are procedures to follow but people should use sensible discretion.

town = to an

Ther reason they ask these questions at airports, is so your are unable to claim you where unaware of things at a later date.

Oh yes. Sodding RBS questioned me about taking £1000 quid OF MY OWN MONEY in cash out of my account. I went bonkers at them, complained to head office etc.

Unfortunately, it's all down to 'money laundering' regulations, and also, I think, Inland Revenue trying to stop 'cash in hand' payments to workmen etc.

Bloody Police State now!

Tinselled its not that I'm doubting other peoples preference for cheque or for bank transfer, more that my preference is for cash. I'm happiest dealing with cash, I don't feel concerned by its presence and generally when dealing with my family cash is the most popular method.

I'm more wondering about the bank and it being able to dictate whether I can have access to my money, which (as I see it) I give them the privilege of holding. This is money that has been earned legitimately and fully taxed (the majority at 40%) and then paid into the account. I think I should be able to access it whenever and in whatever form I want. If I want to blow it all on cocaine, strippers, or fairy lights, I should be at will to do so, and so what I want to know is can HSBC actually refuse to hand over the money without an invoice?

When withdrawing 4k a couple of years ago to pay my builder, I was asked what I wanted the money for, but didn't have to provide proof. When I asked why they were asking me, they said it was for anti money laundering reasons. But to be fair, if I WAS money laundering I wouldn't have told them that, would I?

I worked in a bank over 20 years ago, and money laundering rules applied then. We got it rammed down our throats that we had to ask customers about large amounts paid in and out. I was in my twenties, quite shy, and terrified, especially of one customer that went ballistic at me. My bitch of a chief cashier didn't even speak to me about it afterwards, just made me feel an inch high. Needless to say, I only stayed 6 months in the shittiest job I ever had. Still makes me shudder to think of it.

I'm quite surprised.

I've transferred a number of cash amounts and also withdrawn more cash than that, HSBC have never asked me once!

(No, it's not dodgy reasons!)

Some examples - 10k transferred in by a relative with a different name
6k from an account I closed
20K from an account a loan had gone into
Various amount between 2k to 8K cash

(we have bought, done up and sold a number of houses)

I took slightly more than that out from an HSBC branch at the beginning of dec and wasn't asked any questions however I did call ahead and told them I wanted a large sum of cash but even then no one asked any questions, they ust said come in the next day and bring proof of ID. never had any problems using cash. I think the rules say if someone is depositing more than £500 then they need to ask about it for money laundering rules.

yea but with house prices way they are that an increasingly large number isn't it as they haven't increased the thresholds to same extent?

I wasn't implying it was a common thing - just that there is some kind of restriction.

IHT and bank withdrawals have nothing to do with each other. Most cashiers would have no idea about IHT rules anyway.

woodburner yes potentially. Your builder might be operating at below the threshold for VAT and doesn't need to register. Of course it's going to be difficult for him to show he's below the threshold if he doesn't have invoices showing what he's billed customers.

Accepting cash in hand to avoid VAT is tax evasion, which is illegal. If you don't ask for an invoice you don't know what his VAT status is so potentially you are colluding with assisting tax evasion. HMRC are unlikely to do anything about you as it's the tradesmen they are interested in.

My obviously poorly made point PrincessFlirtyPants that there all kinds of restrictions of what you can and can't do with your own money.

There are restriction of what you can and can't do with with things like pension pot that been taxed already and stuff you leave once dead having bought and paid tax on throughout your life.

This is just another restriction - an annoying one - one that can be worked around by taking cash out gradually or by using cheques or Internet bank transfer.

Did HSBC handle it badly yes - very least they could have done in give an indication of limits - is this something the OP will find with another bank - increasingly so.

Giving out the threshold limit would be silly as it would basically be giving direct instructions of how to circumvent the money-laundering check. Of course there are other weaknesses in the process but that doesn't mean HSBC should deliberately undermine it.

Its been a while since I read my Banking Code and Business Banking Code, but it used to be that you would be asked to prove where money was coming from, not going to for Money Laundering.

HSBC have had their bottoms severely spanked recently, so are being extra vigilant/pedantic about accounts at the moment.

Not directly relevant, I know, but why pay it in cash? Wouldn't it have been simpler all round to pay by cheque or bank transfer?

I also work in this industry and as everyone else has said it's money laundering regulations and it is the banks business because you are choosing to have an account with them.

That said I am very surprised that they have insisted on seeing the invoice, in the absence of any other suspicions I think the explanation you gave was reasonable, lots of people pay for building work in cash.

In terms of what the limit is for the regulation, obviously the banks aren't going to advertise this to customers! But the limit is irrelevant tbh more important is whether the transaction is in keeping with the conduct of the account and if there is a reasonable explanation. I would guess that you don't often withdraw large amounts in cash (and lots of people still do) so it would have flagged up.

I know it's really annoying and they do sound a bit jobsworthy but staff really don't want to make things awkward for customers because it just makes their job more difficult and believe it or not asking these questions can also be in the customers best interests to prevent fraud etc.

I don't quite get the logic either tbh.

Yes £6k is a lot of money, but what are the bank going to do with the invoice - send it off to HMRC? Will they only let you withdraw the exact sum invoiced for or would you have to prove you were paying half by transfer, half by cheque?

Sorry - but I've worked for large organisations and I just don't believe that any of them are capable of the level of communication between agencies to make this an effective deterrent