I probably am, but....

[cardamomginger]

DD (3) was diagnosed with a UTI yesterday evening and is on amoxicillin. She is fine in herself, certainly no more off colour than she would be froma mild cold.

I emailed her nursery to see whether they will administer her antibiotics at lunchtime. Like a flipping idiot I told them when she had been diagnosed. They have a policy that children who are on antibiotics are only allowed back to nursery after they have been on them for 48 hours.

She is pretty much fine in herself and a UTI is not contagious or infectious to others. She will have been on antibiotics for 38 hours by the time nursery starts. AIBU to think that this policy needs to have more flexibility built into it, to feel pissed off (pun intended), and irritated with myself for not reading the sodding policy first and then lying about the timing?

I know I probably am being a bit U, etc etc etc. But she will be fine and is not a risk.

Arse.

I think they should have some flexibility on this. Some children are very prone to uti's and be off slot if that's the steadfast rule. Is she not ill with the UTI and they do medicines (just in a time frame) then I cannot see the problem.

I think it's for other reasons that infection....surely it's to do with the child just not being well enough to be at nursery? If they're ill enough to be on ABs then they're not well enough to go to nursery. UTIs can be horrid in small ones and as I remember my own DD used to take about 3 days to get more herself even on AB.s

The reasons for these rules are in case there is a reaction to the antibiotics she is on.

Surely she is on abx because it is bacterial and it's not so much an issue of severity? She has been much more ill with viral coughs, colds and stomach bugs than she has with this UTI.

The policy says nothing about reactions - it's more to do with the child not being able to be part of a group setting (whatever that means). She's had amoxicillin before and with no problems. And other drugs can cause reactions, yet these are not mentioned as meanign the child is excluded.

Off out now. So won;t be online for a bit.

The "in case of reaction" is silly. Drug reactions occur any time from 2nd dose ever, onwards...

I'm sure it's actually because the aren't able to deal with poorly children- nursing your dd with a fever takes extra people etc ( and even if she's 100%well with it making and exception for you lays them open to having to offer that to others etc potentially leaving them caring for kids who are poorly /getting worse)

But if it was just because she is ill, then then usual illness policy should cover the case of a child who is too ill to be taken care of at nursery. The first-48-hours-of-antibiotics ban is an add on.

We had dinner tonight with paediatrician friend who snorted when I told him about the policy. Not that this helps me.

Nurseries need such policies to try to stop parents sending ill children in.

No, I don't think policies should have flexibility - because where would they end up drawing the line?

You're going to argue 38 hours is actually fine, so someone else is going to argue 24 hours is actually fine and they bent the rules for you etc

But they already have a not sending ill children in policy. That takes care of parents trying to send children in, who are clearly ill and for their sake, and for the sake of other children, should be at home.

What's so special about antibiotics that needs to have a blanket ban for the first 48 hours regardless of the reason for the antibiotics, regardless of whether the illness can easily be passed on, and regardless of the how ill the child actually is?

I always thought these policies were to do with possible reactions to antibiotics. It's likely to be a recommended policy they have adopted rather than something they've just made up on a whim. Why don't you just ask them about it. I'm sure they'll be happy to explain it to you. Unfortunately policies are there for a reason and there is no possibility of them being "flexible".

Reactions to antibiotics. The first time DS had amoxicillin he was a lot worse 24-36 hours later (floppy and covered in rash). Nursery don't want to take the risk. There should be some flexibility if she is on something that she has had before without problems, though, IMHO.

Someone else upthread wondered about the whole reaction thing. But it was pointed out that you can have a reaction after 48 hours of taking a drug (so the timeframe makes no sense), that the child may have had the drug before and with no side effects (so a blanket ban for all children makes no sense), and that other drugs may also cause reactions, but there is no policy in regard to them (so singling out antibiotics makes no sense).

I will ask the nursery about it. I'm trying to see if there is anything on NHS websites about children on antibiotics needing to be kept away from school for the first 48 hours, and so far I can't find anything. And our paediatrician friend says it makes no sense as a policy.

I had a life threatening reaction to a drug three weeks after taking it. I think they should say that any child should be off for three weeks after taking any drug!

Generally speaking if a child is ill enough for antibiotics they are too ill for nursery for a couple of days at least. A 48 hour rule makes pefect sense and reduces the number of poorly children they have to look after. Keep her off for another day let her body carry on recovering.

Kew - thanks .

Sirzy - but antibiotics just means it is bacterial and not viral, they do not necessarily indicate severity. DD has been far more ill with viral infections than she has with this. The nursery has illness policies in place that should filter out the children who are too ill to attend regardless of whether it is viral or bacterial (or an allergy), regardless of whether the infection is contagious, etc, and regardless of whether they are on any medication and what that medication may be. Why the need for an additional blanket ban on antibiotics? Our consultant paediatrician friend we saw this evening says that the policy makes no sense from a medical perspective.

I've emailed the nursery to ask them for the reasons for the ban.

The 48 hour thing is because research shows that's how long ABx need to be in your system before you're not contagious, ( and also generally feeling a bit better). Whilst it's VERY unlikely that your daughters UTI is contagious, you wouldn't know for sure unless she had a swab to check. Because all the toilets are shared and one cannot guarantee proper hand washing, even if she is still in nappies and being changed at nursery, there is still a small possibility that other children and/or staff are exposed to infected urine, and therefore at risk of being unwell themselves. For the record, bacteria that can cause UTI's can also cause cough and cold like illnesses, stomach upsets etc etc....so things that could potentially spread very fast in a nursery setting.
As a parent myself, I know how irritating it is, but these sorts of policies are put in place to protect your child as well as the other children and the staff. Just one of those things we have to take on the chin!

I am sure if there was something as simple to keep children with other illness off they would but there isn't always that in place.

Sorry but if a child is ill enough to need antibiotics then I don't think 2 days off nursery is a bad thing!

I would assume not being able to be part of a group setting means they anticipate under the weather children needing a lot more 1 to 1 attention than the staffing ratios allow for?
Most children get more clingy when they're ill.

FGS!

Childcare settings are full of viruses and bacteria. That's why they use gloves to change nappies and have cleaning and hand washing guidelines.

Ask the nursery manager to show you the Health Protection Agency guidelines that recommend excluding children for 48 when they are on antibiotics.

There is absolutely no good reason for excluding children on antibiotics for that length of time. Once they are clinically well they should be allowed to return.

My DD (4) had a very nasty UTI last summer and it took 2 courses of antibiotics to get rid of it and she wasn't well for the first 3-4 days of diagnosis so I kept her off nursery so she could rest. I sent her back in around Day 5 of first course as she seemed better in herself but I feel she went back in too early.

Give her another day to rest up and the best chance of getting better properly.

You may think your DD is her normal self but the antibiotics are probably masking the symptoms.

Give her some more cuddle time

The nursery policy specifically in relation to abx states:

"It is important that children are not subjected to the rigours of the nursery day, which require socialising with other children and being part of a group setting, when they have first become ill and require a course of antibiotics. Our policy, therefore, is to exclude children on antibiotics for the first 48 hours of the course."

So nothing about abx needing to take x amount of time (and for many infections it seems it is 24 not 48 hours). Nothing about possible reactions. Nothing even about infection or contagion - they are perfectly happy to have children with infectious viral coughs and colds attend. Just guff about 'the rigours of the day'. But their other policies about ill children not being at nursery would take care of that. DD needs far more attention and is far more clingy when she has a viral cold (when she would not be subjected to the abx policy).

Please don't get me wrong - if she was properly ill, I would keep her home in a heartbeat. She's been laughing, joking, helping me with baking today. We've been watching DVDs. She's her normal self. No temperature, no sickness, no stomach or back pains, no diahorrea. The policy as stated makes no sense to me, and our paediatrician mate says it is daft. So I'm annoyed!! I needed a rant, and thanks for letting me do that.

I won't try to send her in tomorrow - I'm not going to have a fight with them. We'll have a lie in and then I think we'll go to the London Transport Museum, assuming it's not chucking it down with rain (rain beats on window pane as I type).

Mrsthreads sorry your DD had such a horrid time with UTIs.

They've probably found that parents were sending in sick children who just wanted to sleep/be cuddled all day and saying "oh she's fine, the GP gave her antibiotics yesterday".

If the policy is to prevent parents sending children who are unwell into nursery then it should state just that.

They are showing a fundamental lack of understanding of the use of antibiotics and differing infections.

I'd ask them to review their policy in cooperation with a medical professional.

In the meantime, enjoy your day

If the policy is to prevent parents sending children who are unwell into nursery then it should state just that.

They are showing a fundamental lack of understanding of the use of antibiotics and differing infections.

I'd ask them to review their policy in cooperation with a medical professional.

In the meantime, enjoy your day

Well your all assuming the ABs will suddenly start working. There's a chance they won't. She may need an alternative or a stronger dosage. If this lot doesn't work properly she could become worse whilst at nursery. I don't see a problem with keeping them off for the 48 hours till some improvement is actually seen and you know it's working