Just back from doctor's and am fuming and livid

[deckofcards]

Before I write a formal letter of complaint, am I being unreasonable?

Went to doctors' before Christmas for a routine appointment and repeat prescription. Needed a blood test and to have ears syringed (have been going deaf). Dr gave me print out and told me to make an appointment with the nurse. Went to reception and asked for an appointment with the nurse which is what I thought I had been given.

Arrived this morning, having fasted. Called in by a sweet enough girl although she wasn't wearing uniform and didn't properly introduce herself as a nurse or anything else. She took my arm and sweetly put it on a pillow, told me I had very deep veins (which I know but it isn't usually a problem but sometimes a doctor has been called), tried the other arm using elasticated cuffs that were clearly broken because they kept popping open and she later said they were no good. She gave me a glass of water to hydrate me better for the veins (which I would have thought would take more than a mintue to work). Still no joy so she went to get a colleague to help her.

The colleague was the receptionist who leaned over me reeking of tobacco and tried to find a vein. I questioned this and was told she was also a trained phlebotomist. The original one then said they would have to give up as the vein wasn't pronounced enough but she would start on my ears. I asked if she was a qualified nurse and she said, no a health care worker.

I declined her offer to deal with my ears and said that I would prefer an appointment with a fully trained practice nurse.

I went out to make another appointment and have been offered one for today with the proper nurse for my ears and have another on Thursday morning for blood tests. I am extremely grumpy that my time has been wasted.

Am I wrong in thinking that if I am told to make an appointment with the nurse and ask for an appointment with the nurse I should be given an appointment with the nurse or advised either when making the appointment that it is not with a nurse. I certainly should not embark on treatment without being appraised of the full facts.

It was clear that the person I saw this morning was not capable or experienced, it did nothing to inspire confidence that she got the girl off the reception desk to help her (and who reeked of tobacco) and I left feeling cross, upset, disrespected and messed about. I would have thought as a minimum of a health care assistant is expected to take blood or syringe ears (and I think the latter is more of an issue actually) then there should be a fully qualified nurse on the premises to supervise, not the stinky girl from reception.

Is this really what healthcare has come to and surely I'm not being unreasonable to expect the tin to contain what it says on the label.

I am minded to make a formal complain to the surgery but needed to get that off my chest first and to take some feedback - hopefully from those who work in surgeries. Oh, and the receptionist/phlebotomist told me it wasn't just my time that was wasted from their side the healthcare assistant now had 30 minutes with no patient because she wasn't doing my ears. My response to that was that had I been told my appointment wasn't being made with the practice nurse in the first place that wouldn't be the case because I wouldn't have made the appointment.

Sorry - very long but I feel better for a rant - and even more that the entire episode was totally out of order. But am I being Unreasonable to think that.

I know! I was actually at the early pregnancy unit at the time, as I'd had a miscarriage. So it was quite important they took the blood so I kept persevering!

I used to work in a hospital out Patients dept and it was the HCA's that were qualified to take bloods - the trained nurses were not allowed to do it because they were not trained in the procedure.

Which would you prefer someone trained and qualified to do a certain procedure or someone who wasn't ?

I've had phlebotomists and consultants unable to take blood from my arms, wrists etc. In the end they had to use my feet. It doesn't always mean they're crap at what they're doing.

I have done an afternoon clinic stinking of cigarrette smoke because a patient I have seen in the morning on a home visit lives in a smokers house.

I've never smoked in my life.
I am very aware though that my clothes and hair stink.
I can change my white tunic (if I have a spare) but everything else I'm stuck with.

If the practise employs a phlebotomist they are probably much more experienced in taking bloods than the practise is nurse anyway,the PN may not have taken a blood sample in years.................

katespade can you explain why it would have been a waste of time for you to see a HCA? I broke my elbow earlier this year and I didn't see a single dr!

Radiography students were excellent (although they needed a bit of help from their supervisor) I felt privileged to be able to help hem train and I remember well what that was like. I presume a radiologist looked at the films but the radiographer had already diagnosed what was wrong from the pain I was in. Then I was directed to A&E and saw a nurse. She was great and explained everything really well. When I went for my unnecessary I felt follow up, I saw a registrar who was a bit dismissive tbh. Give me that A&E nurse any day. She was great.

My point is, you may think you'd be better off seeing the nurse or the GP, there's an ethical principle called justice which dictates that resources are allocated according to need. You didn't NEED to see the nurse, maybe someone else did? Good luck with your private healthcare.

Dear Mrs upmyownarseselfcenteredidiot - go private & leave the hard working NHS staff alone! Or write to the DM?! Oh & dont forget to charge the NHS for your precious time!

Yabu.

Basically the go screwed up and referred to the HCW as a nurse, it was the GP who made you believe that's who you needed to see. The person who made your appt would not have known whether the mistake of suggesting a nurse to take bloods and syringe your ears was your doctors or yours. But they choose not to correct you....any idea why?

If you read your op, you come across as an absolute nightmare, I expect they knew you'd make a huge fuss over nothing and waste everyone's time. Btw you may want to try using drops of oil in your ear rather than getting them syringed, stick with it for a couple of week, works a treat and no need to bother professionals or otherwise.

YANBU - if the receptionist told you that you had an appointment with the practice nurse, that is what should have been provided.

Given the status of NHS as the national religion, it's unlikely you will get much sympathy here. FWIW, employing cheaper and less qualified staff and being rather vague about their role seems to be the way forward in the eyes of the NHS. If nobody is quite sure who the doctors are, they can't complain about the lack of them! I always ask to see a named consultant. If seeing a properly qualified person is too much to ask, then frankly the NHS deserves to be on its knees.

I say complain - the practice may at least make the position clearer to future patients.

Not all qualified nurses do phlebotomy.

Many HCAs are trained and highly skilled in phlebotomy. I would much rather have one of my HCAs take my blood than the medical staff or nurses who do the procedure infrequently.

YABU

for while you wait.

hcas ARE qualified to take bloods/have ears syringed younggirl! what an earth more training do nurses have taking blood that a hca hasnt? op is stoopid & up her own arse tbh & i hope they laugh at your complaint!

Believe me you would want an HCA taking your bloods rather than me.

I would only have blood taken by a phlebotomist personally, but either way you are missing the point. The OP was led to believe she was seeing the practice nurse, and was misled. That applies irrespective of whether the HCA was qualified to do the job. Some might be, as you suggest, but it doesn't sound as though this particular one was.

Yabvu

Get a grip.

In most cases nurses who undertake extended roles (male catheterisation, unless the nurse is male, in which case female catheterisation; blood sampling; insertion of cannulas; ear syringing; IV drug administration, etc.) will have undertaken specific courses to enable them to do so.

The doctors you see on wards are usually expected to use their knowledge of anatomy and perhaps a lecture to teach themselves how to do these things, or taught on the basis of 'see one, do one'.

For instance, when I went to A&E and my DD3 needed her head glued, the Nurse Practitioner taught the doctor how to glue a head by saying 'clean like this, squeeze the edges together then glue here...' You can almost guarantee that a nurse/HCA would have to attend a 3-4 hour course to be able to do that.

HCAs are given specific training to teach a specific skill, then use that skill frequently, maintaining it.

YABVU , but feel free to complain , hopefully your GP will then exercise his rights and have you removed from his list .

Proper laughing at fuming and livid btw.

It was a bit of phlebotomy not brain surgery.

You are right lougle, other hcps receive thorough training, but med students/drs tend to learn via the see one, do one, teach one method. I speak as a med student myself.

I suspect the woman who was trying to deal with you had some form of qualifications else she wouldn't be allowed to work there. But if you do want to complain I'd suggest phoning the surgery and asking to speak to the practice manager rather than writing a letter which could possibly be ignored

I'm sure the children employed by your GP will miss you terribly.

I don't think OP is the Queen - he/she comes across more like Count Arthur Strong.
OP, FWIW, even if you had seen a nurse this morning, she almost certainly wouldn't have been wearing a starched white uniform with a folded cap pinned onto marcelled hair, so probably wouldn't have met your exacting standards ...

I'm a hcw at a large hospital. I'm not qualified no but I am trained to the hospital guidlinesand policies! I'm trained in taking full sets of observations (bp etc) and venepuncture!!! Sometimes I can't get the vein whether patient is dehydrated or crap veins! It happens!!! I was asked no earlier than today to attempt to take bloods. I couldn't feel any so I didn't attempt, the doctor attempted and failed and they got the anesthetist!! He also failed! They ended up having to take blood from her groin, the patient knw she had shit veins so wad happy for this to happen!!

As a hcw we need to have "x" amount of competences that are supervised before we can do these tasks unsupervised and if we dont feel confident or competent we just don't don't do tot!!

Op u sound like a peach!!!!

'Nurse' could just be a shortcut for 'Auxiliary nurse' rather than 'Staff nurse'.

Syringing ears will be a short session covered in a Nurses training course, this can be replicated as a stand alone session for a HCA, both will have to be observed and supervised before they are let loose on the general public!. The same goes for a Phlebotomist, many phlebotomists work part time in other roles as it is not usually full time work, your stinking, festering beast of a receptionist probably part time in both roles to fund her disgusting fag habit

YABU and entitled

Unfortunately most doctor's offices and hospitals are replacing actual Nurses with HCAs. On my hospital ward years ago we had 6 Nurses per shift. Now we are only allowed to have one nurse and 4 HCAs per shift. It is a budget thing on the part of the financial managers.

This puts immense pressure on the ward Nurse as she has to deal with all the meds, emergencies, doctors, orders, admits, discharges, families etc herself as HCAs are not allowed. The HCAs can do certain tasks only.

Regarding lab draws however you will often find that the HCAs are very, very good at it because they do it so much. They do more phlebotomy than the Nurses and Doctors do in many places. My HCAs can get blood from a stone. Health care assistants may not have been to nursing school and they may not be licensed but they are often very good at the tasks they are legally allowed to do.

If they told you that you are seeing a Nurse you should have seen a Nurse. I personally am sick and tired of the public walking onto a ward and "identifying" the 1 nurse and 4 health care assistants as "5 nurses on duty". Uh no there is ONE nurse. Ughh. And that is the case even if there were 100 health care assistants on duty. Same with doctors offices. People don't really understand what it means to be an actual nurse so they think that HCAs are pretty much the same thing.

"'Nurse' could just be a shortcut for 'Auxiliary nurse' rather than 'Staff nurse'"

Wrong. Nurse means RN which means nursing school. There is no such thing as an unqualified nurse. Either you are a nurse or you are not. I personally hate the term auxiliary nurse. They are not nurses.