Have we been played for fools?

[JDHoney]

V long story short, DP's XW broke all communication for the past 11 years until DP's DD and DS were adults. They have been in contact now for one year.

DP's DS is more forthcoming. Dp's DD is much less so. Occasional emails from her (about 6/7 or so this year, her choice not to progress to phone calls/meets). Aside from responding to DP's emails this year, DP's DD sent a completely-out-of-the-blue father's day email wishing him a lovely day.

A few days before Christmas she sent an email hinting at money worries (her family is very monied, but we are assuming she is having to make her own way). We replied, part of which was asking for rough numbers re debts. She replied the same night (unprecedented) and vaguely hinted at a figure that would be of great benefit to her. We spent a few hours going through our finances and working out a way to get this to her. Replied by email to say (among other things) that it was on its way to her. Her signature confirmed she received this the day before cmas eve.

Since then we've heard nothing from her. fb intimates she may have been at a family gathering we had been told she couldn't attend. Have we been played for fools do you think?

Sorry, more x-posts.

coconutty Thank you, you have really reassured me. What you've said is exactly how I feel. I'll now be wary, but obviously still very encouraging of DP should contact with his DD continue (which I desperately hope that it will, and that this thread is proved unwarranted)

crapbag thank you. A lot has gone on that I didn't think needed mentioning in OP. I totally agree that at this stage this isn't a father/daughter relationship but I do still hope that this will build upon in the future.

cheese no, she had prior commitments rather than not being able to afford to be there.

whoNicked thank you. In my heart, that's how I feel about it too.

Nonno Coming totally clean, I have given my DP a cheque to cover the £450 because there is no way he has the money to afford it. So while it's technically my DP played for a fool, it's me who is footing the bill on this particular occasion.

freudian Thank you, that's what I'm hoping.

Cotede phew, thank you very much. You have articulated how I feel much better than I could have.

myname hope, maybe? But no, we didn't expect more. Just that she had emailed twice in one day which was unprecedented so gave us hope that it would continue.

ragusa devout in terms of actions, but she has posted other fb comments so would presumably have had the opportunity for a thank you email. That was my first argument about why she might not have sent anything though.

mrsSteptoe I'd desperately hoping for b). like you wouldn't believe. Thank you so much for your other comments xxx

minnie thank you, I really appreciate your words. Nothing was given in the hope of expectation. We just keep hoping things can move forward in spite of the past.

greenfolder thank you. I really hope things have worked out with your mate and his DC. It is such a difficult situation but he sounds like he handled it as best it possible could be.

Iwanna Totally agree. We could never cancel the cheque in such a situation, would just chalk it down to experience and handle the next situation diffenently.

beast the one like I keep trotting out to DP is that, if she is Christian, then she will believe in forgiveness and family. I hope with all my heart that this is what she believes, but we both know others feel differently and that religion is what you make it. I really hope that you are right, that a week is very little time and that time will tell in DP's favour. It has happened this way in the past (he has emailed every three weeks or so, and got a reply every two or three months).

Sorry for the long reply, and no doubt I have missed people out. xx

Maybe she hasn't opened it yet. Or she's opened it but been very busy and wants to write or call (I do this, and it takes me forever to find time and then I wish I'd just texted). Or maybe she's opened it and feels a bit conflicted about accepting money from a father she's not really sure about being in contact with. I'd give her a bit more time, tbh. But basically she has said she owed money, you've sent her the money with no expectations, so it's not like you were buying something. In what way have you been taken for fools?

Mind you how many dishonest Christians have we come across? It's not something I'd consider relevant.

I think you can do nothing but wait to see how the relationship progresses, I hope she doesn't disappoint but your intentions were good only time will tell what her's were.

I think I would try to meet in person if she gets in touch again. Whatever she's asking for then. It's not an unreasonable thing to ask.

I don't understand the played for fools bit. She asked for money, you gave. Where is the "fool" part? I don't see any deception in the picture. Selfishness at worst, maybe.

I'm so sorry - more x-posts, and I'm grateful for everyone who has responded.

Sorry, I've completely lost the plot with whose posts I have responded to

woowoo no, you're quite right it wasn't a living and respectful relationship previousy, but we keep on hoping that if we try long enough...

Iwanna He would indeed have, and I would never have tried to make him think otherwise. I really hope that it is indeed the case x

londonNicki it is overdue rent, that apparently the LL is being relatively lenient about due to the religious connections. We took it at face value due to DP's need to help out where he can.

Peggy thank you. Totally agreed.

kitttty that would be really lovely. Unlikely, but lovely. We live in hope though. Her training is to provide religious assistance. It isn't work-related like we originally thought it might be. No, he's not had contact with her since she was 18 because he didn't know how to contact her. My DP and I don't have children (though not because we haven't tried).

lightmin Oh I so hope you are right. This is how I tend to think of things too. The taken for fools bit is more sort of forward thinking that she might feel she can ask us for any money for anything and we would give it. I am known for overthinking things though.

snowdown thank you. I hope so too.

I'm sorry that you find yourselves in this position. My son, who voluntarily estranged himself from us many years rang me just before Christmas, a few years ago, saying that he needed several hundred of pounds very quickly or he would be evicted from his flat.

Like you I went into overdrive to get him the money. Not a word of thanks - in fact not a word since.

It was almost certainly spent on drugs as I know he was evicted anyway.

The problem is that as a parent you feel you have a responsibility. You do not want to see your child suffer.

I would never do it agin no matter what story he may come up with in the future.

I think you did the right thing - this is a long game, she might not appreciate it now but she will remember it.

Don't give her any more money though.

Who are you - the Grinch? Why have you been 'played for a fool' if your DP spends a relatively meagre sum to help his child avoid eviction? Most parents help their children financially, and it sounds as though his help was well overdue. It should have been given willingly and freely without strings attached or the expectation of something in return; or is he trying to buy back her love and affection after years of neglect?

On reading a couple of your later posts, I find myself confused as to why you have come to the conclusion that you've been taken for a mug.

The dd is a young student who has found herself in a bit of financial trouble, so she's taken a chance and asked the Dad she barely knows if he'll lend her some money.

She gets told that she can have the money, there is no obligation to pay it back. Then Christmas gets in the way and she doesn't get a chance to email. She may be being a little impolite, but the circumstances here sound complicated, so she deserves the benefit of the doubt.

My Dad was barely in my life from about age 7 to about 19. At that point he gave me a significant sum of money. Was I grateful? Not hugely, no. Being given money does not magic up a relationship and does not replace years of not being bothered to be in touch.

However difficult his Ex made it - he couldn't contact them at all in 11 years? Really? Did they leave the country? I wouldn't expect the DD to be really grateful, although she is probably very relieved to be out of debt. You will probably get a polite message eventually. But I wouldn't expect anything else other than that. Even if the mother made it impossibly hard to see the kids, from the daughter's point of view she has still been dumped by her Dad for over a decade of her childhood. It will take a lot of years to repair that, if its even possible. £450 isn't going to make a significant difference.

Do you know what her religion is? I'm a bit confused as to whether the money was for debt or for 'religious instruction'.

I apologise if you mentioned it somewhere and I missed it.

I think the "being taken for mugs" comment is more OP's DP becoming hopeful that her increasing level of contact was suggesting that she was thawing towards him. Instead now the suspicion is that it was all a cunning ploy to get a couple of hundred quid to get through Christmas, and they feel they've been had. Where does the OP say she was about to be evicted?!

Anyway OP, her decline in contact after receiving the cheque would suggest that your suspicions are well founded. However, I would wait until her regular bi-monthly email comes 'round- she might make mention of it then.

I find it hard to believe that someone really could not get into contact with someone in this day and age. Unless she was living in some sort of closed religious community or was otherwise estranged from most people she knew. It strikes me there might be more to this situation than meets the eye.

A family member had almost identical circumstances. His ex wife had cut his children from him when they were about 10. She poisoned their minds against him and used some very damaging accusations to keep him away while she turned them against him.
Nearly 20 years later they learned the truth. They made contact with him and a very tentative relationship began. But early on his DD asked for a large sum of money. He told her no, that wasn't the basis for their relationship and she disappeared. He was naturally very hurt.
Then a few months later she came back. She apologised, acknowledged that it was inappropriate to ask for that money, she'd been desperate but he wasn't the right person to ask. They started again and now have a pretty good relationship a few years later.
Take heart OP, it's not necessarily a con, she may still want the relationship but perhaps your DP needs to get in touch and explain why he's hurt.

Sorry, I didn't have a chance to come back on here again last night.

wetaugust I'm sorry about your son, that must have been a very difficult time for you. You are spot on though - even now DP's DCs are adults he feels he has a responsibility to them (and not just in a 'making up for lost time sense' if that makes sense?)

thisisaghostly so true.

dolce there was no suggestion of eviction, DP's DD's words related to owing rent on the place where she foresaw that she would continue to live regardless of DP's assistance. The 'played for a fool' relates to us being completely blind to the notion that perhaps there was no rent issue and it may have been a fabrication to get money from us. Regardless, the money was given freely and willingly and we made it clear to her that nothing was expected in return. Even if it hadn't have been for rent, he would still have given her what he could (though possibly not £450). He is not trying to buy back her affection, he is trying to build a new relationship with his adult DD from scratch. I am not sure in what way he has neglected his DD though - maintenance was always paid on time, attempts at communication were made, Christmas and birthday presents sent, flowers before big events. There was never a time when DP stopped thinking about his DCs, but when the RP decides the NRP will not be involved as a parent it can be pretty difficult to be involved.

woowoo it's because it's only just dawned on me that there may have been no rent issue. We have only the two emails to go on to say that there is. We know that she was at the family Christmas event that she said she couldn't go to, which is what set my alarm bells ringing. Your last paragraph is what I am hanging on to for all that it is worth.

vj he attempted contact but DP's XW changed the phone number and letters were returned unopened, marked 'not at this address'. DP has mental health issues that prevented him from going to the address in person, though he tried several times. I do occasionally remind DP that it would look as you have said from his DD's point of view, and also that girls/boys/men/women often approach situations very differently so he can't measure his DD's contact by his DS's.

lookatmybutt I believe she's part of the Jesus Army movement. I'm unclear whether the accommodation she is in has been provided by her church. She did stay in church accommodation throughout her degree. I have no idea whether they charge for their religious instruction or not.

craic thank you. Hopefully that will indeed be the case.

ragusa it wasn't in this day and age though, it was 12 years ago. They had no online presence, we had no internet anyway. They didn't have mobile phones at the time communication was cut off. We didn't have money for solicitors or courts. We have no idea if anything we sent reached the DCs before things started being returned as 'not at this address'. DP's mental health issues also didn't make things any easier. Thankfully, due to it now being this day and age, DP was able to contact his DD through the internet after she started a publicly visible webpage.

lisascat thank you, I'm so pleased it has worked out well for your family member. It's probably too early yet to send an email to his DD about it, but at least we do have that route available.

Sorry for the long post, lots of really helpful replies and different questions have been posted and I wanted to cover them all.

I would think that this is not really very sinister.

I get the picture of a young woman whose life is really bound up at the moment in belonging to this rather intense religious group. Although there are plenty of cynical and dishonest Christians, sadly, as there are cynical and dishonest people everywhere, I don't think we yet see evidence that this is true here. The family event may simply be a question of something else having been cancelled, leaving her free to go. It's more likely that she's not in the habit of giving her dad much thought, she is very preoccupied with her religious experience, and that she hasn't got particularly good manners.

The stakes are high here as her dad must be excited at the thought of getting a new relationship. I think the truth will be somewhere in the middle. I doubt he/ you have been played for fools. I also think that the money may not transform the relationship, because she is at a life stage where parents seem pretty distant anyway.

If she is behind with rent etc then I assume she isn't currently working very much. As she completes her training or whatever this is, and looks for work, she may need more support, either financial or mentoring. I would put yourselves in a position where she can come to you again, not necessarily for money but for advice and support. So I would make sure she doesn't pick up any negative vibes over the money, but do use it to get her to come to lunch, and talk about this whole religious thing which clearly is her life at the moment.

I assume you are aware by now that she has given the money to her church, right?

I know a couple of people who gave up everything for this church. A friend of mine was given her business by her friend who joined, a d decided to giver up her hard-won business so that she could do her religious training.

[http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/the-jesus-army-wants-you-1617501.html link]

Thank you beast your post's given me a lot of perspective. In fact it's quite spooky how everything you've said in it rings true!

notyounaan oh gawd that article is going to give me nightmares now. I had no idea, truly.

My Dad was barely in my life from about age 7 to about 19. At that point he gave me a significant sum of money. Was I grateful? Not hugely, no. Being given money does not magic up a relationship and does not replace years of not being bothered to be in touch.

However difficult his Ex made it - he couldn't contact them at all in 11 years? Really? Did they leave the country? I wouldn't expect the DD to be really grateful, although she is probably very relieved to be out of debt. You will probably get a polite message eventually. But I wouldn't expect anything else other than that. Even if the mother made it impossibly hard to see the kids, from the daughter's point of view she has still been dumped by her Dad for over a decade of her childhood. It will take a lot of years to repair that, if its even possible. £450 isn't going to make a significant difference.

I completely identify with, and agree with this. I had a similar situation with my own father, paying up for my wedding, unbegrudgingly, no questions asked, after 15 years of seeing me only sporadically and paying maintenance even more sporadically (his choice). He tried to assuage that guilt by buying his way out of it later.

On the other hand....

A family member had almost identical circumstances. His ex wife had cut his children from him when they were about 10. She poisoned their minds against him and used some very damaging accusations to keep him away while she turned them against him.

I am also very aware that things like this ^ really do happen, I've seen it myself several times with families I know. The parents split up and once sane and rational people become so consumed with their own bitterness and hate and disappointment that they start to project that onto the children and infect them with it.

We can never know what the absolute truth is in these very complex circumstances - everyone thinks that the 'truth' is their truth, and they often can't see further than their own hurt and their own POV.

I think if she is in her late teens or early twenties she's probably just distracted and self-absorbed, like most people her age, and perhaps she will phone or email to thank him eventually but she has other priorities at the moment. Quite honestly, it may not have been any different even if she had a great relationship with her dad. She might just be 'busy' and meaning to do it tomorrow or the next day.

Ah well, I have adult DC myself!

Do agree that the involvement in the Jesus army may be something she comes to regret. Be good if you had a strong relationship with her by then.