Breastfeeding newborn

[SuperLovefuzz]

My OH and I have just had a baby girl, she's now 2 weeks old. I do all the night feeds and changes as I'm on mat leave and OH works full time. He does help if I need it by changing her, but mostly I do it myself (which I'm happy with). I've been breastfeeding her using nipple shields because she has a tongue tie, mixed with giving her expressed breast milk from a bottle. She's also had the occasional top up of formula on the advice of the doctor because she wasn't getting milk quickly enough to clear up the little bit of jaundice she had in the hospital.

On Saturday, her poo was a bit foamy and didn't seem right. I looked up online and found advice which indicated this meant she was getting too much 'foremilk' and not enough 'hindmilk'. Basically she was getting too much of the first milk that comes out which is harder for her body to digest. The advice I found on this was to only feed from one breast for certain blocks of time (alternating) to ensure she is emptying the breast in one sitting and so getting both types of milk. I also took her to the out of hours GP because she seemed to be in pain while pooing. He checked her and agreed that it is because she is not fully breaking down the lactose, but did not offer any other breastfeeding advice. He said this is all completely normal and nothing to worry about.

My OH thinks the best solution is to solely express milk to ensure I am emptying both breasts each time. I've pointed out the issues I have with this as follows (1) in some cases solely expressing can interfere with milk supply and she may end up needing to go onto formula, which we both want to avoid. (2) it is not practical for me to be getting up every 3 hours in the middle of the night to feed her an expressed bottle, change her nappy, get her down and then spend at least 30 mins expressing milk until I empty my breasts. I would have to express during the night to have any chance of keeping up my supply and also to stop my breasts from becoming overly full and uncomfortable. I had to have an emergency c-section and lost over 2 litres of blood. My wound is also infected and I'm on a course of antibiotics. So I need even more rest in order I recover. When I point this out to my OH he takes complete objection, saying I'm putting my own needs before the baby's. (3) this method means she is never getting 'fresh' breastmilk.

We are travelling 200 miles to spend Christmas with his family tomorrow, so I have been expressing milk and storing it in the fridge to use on the journey. Since Saturday, I have also been breastfeeding directly, giving expressed milk and a bit of formula to compensate for what was being stored (short term solution).

The main point my OH focuses on is that by breastfeeding directly, our baby isn't emptying my breast. I have pointed out that she takes between 3 and 6 oz in one feed when taking a bottle, and each breast only holds about 4 oz. I also tested this yesterday by keeping her on one breast for as long as possible and not switching. After this I tried to pump from that breast and only got out about 10ml (after much effort).

DFil is here tonight as he drove up to pick us up and is driving us down to his family tomorrow. (I can't drive because of c-sec and OH can't drive at all).

Since this discussion on Saturday about the best way to proceed, my OH has witnessed me breastfeeding and hasn't commented or tried to intervene. An hour ago when she woke up for a feed, I got up and went to pee first. When I got back OH was holding the baby and comforting her. I got my nipple shield and sat in position for feeding and asked him to pass me the baby. He told me not to breastfeed and instead to go and warm up one of the expressed bottles from the fridge (which I have stored specifically for the journey tomorrow). I said I would feed from my breast and if she needed more milk after this, I would give her a little bit of formula. He completely refused to give her to me so I got quite upset as she was still crying and obviously hungry. I left the room and told him to feed her and went to sleep on the couch. After 10 mins she was still screaming so I came back through and again asked him to give her to me to breastfeed. He still wouldn't do this so I went to get DFil and explained the situation and asked him to speak to OH. He did this and while I was there he agreed that I needed to be left to breastfeed in my own way. I then left them to talk and DFil went back to bed and OH came back through feeding baby with one of the expressed bottles, so I'm not sure what was said.

Eventually I told OH that if he will interfere with my breastfeeding in this way, he can take responsibility for the night feeds from now on and she will have to have formula. This is really upsetting me because I want to breastfeed as I can and think this is best. I am hoping he will become too tired with doing this and working and will relent and realise that not only is sleep important, but also that this should be left to me.

I am looking for any advice and would also like to know if IABU in the way I am handling this. I don't want her to be formula fed but equally, it isn't up to OH to dictate and try to railroad me jnto his way of doing things. I am happy to discuss and take on his opinion, but ultimately it's my choice.

Also on a side note, I don't feel like I want to go to stay with his family now and I will have even less control and will be in an unfamiliar environment. I don't feel I can avoid this though as his dad has come up for us. Also I do want to go because I want the baby to meet his family. I'm really torn about this.

Sorry me again just re read your post! For the journey, plan several breaks, I visit relatives not quite as far as you, I stop 3 times usually! Plan in the breaks, take a flask of tea for you to drink and breast feed in your car if you don't want to go into the service station.

As for getting up and expressing, changing etc in the middle of the night. We changed baby in the night for a month or so, but now he goes from 10 until 7 most night without a change of nappy (we use cloth but double stuff!). Your health is very important too, do not think by taking care of yourself you are 'being selfish putting your needs first'. Taking baby off you in the night making you feel you need to fight is NOT putting babies needs first regardless of what your oh says.

I agree with previous poster re the pained look may be baby thinking about what is going on when pooing. It's a new sensation for them, my baby did it too. Formula can cause constipation, breast milk is a laxative. At baby massage we were eventually told that a couple of tummy moves should not be done often to breastfed babies as they don't need the help to poo. (They had assumed we were all formula feeding ).

Hi, just wanted to give my sympathy and support as well, as I remember what a stressful time those early weeks are. With DS1 I had to express in the first few weeks as he just wasn't taking/getting enough and putting on enough weight. I know how exhausting breast feeding, changing nappies THEN expressing on top of that is in the wee small hours (and I wasn't even recovering from a c-section so my heart really goes out to you!).

I don't really have advice as such as I think things will work themselves out, but obviously the tongue tie is a priority - it made a huge difference to my friend's baby. Tell your OH to back off a bit as establishing feeding does take time (whichever method you end up choosing).

Another thing I would say is that I did manage to mix feed successfully - with OH giving baby one formula bottle early evening - while I pumped). Don't feel guilty, and certainly do not let anyone else make you feel guilty if you go down that route at any point. There is so much advice out there regarding feeding but only you know what is working for you and your baby.

When you get to OP's family house, also don't feel guilty for just taking yourself off to a room for a while to feed. Your baby is still so young hopefully people will be understanding and it will give you much needed time out - be utterly, utterly selfish and only put your and the baby's needs first. Sending you big hugs because I really remember how hard those early days are. I promise it does get easier!

This is a terrible thing for you to be dealing with op. The tongue tie needs sorting, I would be tempted to go to a &e because I think a baby not being able to feed properly should be treated as urgent. There are people who can do this and who can do it today. A maxillofacial surgeon at a hospital ( as it happens my teenager is having his cut today by one), or an emergency dentist who will call it a frenectomy it is listed on the nhs tarrif. www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSservices/dentists/Pages/nhs-dental-charges.aspx

Hi super
Sorry if this is terrible to understand A
Or abrupt. Your husband needs to back off . It's your god given right to feed however you see fit . He should be proud of you at a time when you deserve it. I really think he is putting "his" needs first before yours and the baby because other wise he feels left out. Is he insecure? Sounds like it. HAs he been reading baby manuals?? Seriously, there is a lot written about primary attachment , I think he is being insecure. Regards bf, agree don't bother with shields . If you feel bf is what you want, I would feed on demand, your baby knows when she is hungry or needs comfort and all that expressing work is very tiring and time consuming and unnecessary.
Tbh I think he will struggle to get a lot of a support from ppl if he expects them to support his ideas. Most ppl will tell him to leave you to it. I hope you resolve things because this situation must be very difficult at a time when you need each other for support and love.

Firstly, huge congratulations on your new baby. Along with everyone else I am horrified that you are having to deal with an unsupportive partner as well as a newborn, recovery from major surgery etc etc. Refusing to give your baby to you is beyond awful

There is so much conflicting advice about breastfeeding floating around your best bet would be to phone one of the breastfeeding helplines to have a chat through everything with a trained breastfeeding counsellor and formulate a plan. As others have suggested, kellymom.com is a useful evidence-based website - your partner could have a read because he sounds extremely uninformed, at best.

Breastfeeding Helplines:
NCT Breastfeeding Line 0300 330 0771 (8am - 10pm, 7 days a week)

Association of Breastfeeding Mothers 08444 122 949 (9.30am - 10.30pm, every day)

Breastfeeding Network Supporter line 0844 412 4664 9.30am - 9.30pm (every day of the year)

La Leche League 0845 120 2918

A couple of quick points though - as others have said, the tongue tie may need sorting out so that you can feed comfortably without nipple shields. She should be able to feed more effectively once it has been snipped.

Breastfeeding works on a supply and demand basis so the more often milk is removed from the breast, the more milk is produced. So feeding frequently (as often as the baby wishes) and offering a second (or third, fourth, fifth... !) side will keep removing milk from both breasts and will send signals to your body to make more milk which is really important in the early weeks. Only feeding with one boob for a long time in an attempt to 'empty' the breast will do the reverse and this technique is used to lower milk production in mothers who have oversupply issues - so probably not what you want to be doing!

The occasional green or foamy poo is perfectly normal and not something to try to fix but a breastfeeding counsellor should be able to give you some more info.

Lastly, in my experience, some motorway service stations have feeding rooms where you can feed in private if you are more comfortable doing that than sat in a cafe.

Lots of luck, OP - you sound like you are coping brilliantly with a vast amount of stuff being thrown at you. I'm sure you will get it worked out - just need a little bit of support.

Expressing isn't as effective as a baby plus if you do it a lot, your nipples become sore and painful.

Have you considered feeding on schedule rather than on demand? That means she eats a full meal rather than snacks, making her more likely to be hungry enough to reach the hindmilk.

Hi OP, my DS had a TT that wasn't diagnosed and snipped till 11 wks, if I have a 2nd I will definitely book a private lactation consultant, the snip made the world of difference. I would take pp advice and get that sorted immediately. Maybe get your OH to arrange it to give him something to do?

I think (being generous to your OH) for someone who has never done it, expressing sounds like a simple and logical option. In practice it's actually much harder than bf, both physically and emotionally, and is less efficient than bf. I expressed to increase my supply and hated it.

Hormones and emotions run high after a newborn but that is no excuse for your OH's behaviour. I hope in the cold light of day he can see this.

Your DP/OH has no right to prevent you from breastfeeding your baby. No right At All. That has made me very angry for you.

I second all the advice to have the tongue tie snipped. My ds3 had it done when he was just under 2 weeks old and the difference it made to his feeding pattern was unbelievable.

I truly believe you will exhaust yourself if you try to keep up with expressing so much long term, so I urge you to speak to a breastfeeding specialist - either a lactation consultant if there's one near you, or call something like the NCT breastfeeding helpline.

Try not to dwell on oz expressed representing how much milk your baby gets when breastfeeding directly. You won't get as much out with a pump as you will when actually feeding a baby (complex hormone stuff). I certainly could never get more than about half an oz out even after hours of trying to express!

Good luck, OP. I hope you're ok and your partner stops being such a monumental arsehole.

Hello OP

Congratulations on your new baby, and on writing an eloquent and rational post. You came across as loving and caring and having your head screwed on right, which is a big achievement when sleep deprived with a tiny baby.

I'm echoing much of what has been said before but the most important point I can suggest are:

Talk (not type!) to people who know abut this. SearchingforSleep kindly gave a list of contact numbers. RING these people now. You will feel better and more empowered with knowledge I promise. HV are not generally good at giving BF advice sadly.

Feeding baby yourself and frequently will do more to increase supply and bond you and your baby than anything else. The first few weeks are crucial...something about switching on receptors in milk producing tissue.(can't remember the details!).

get the TT sorted ASAP. Establishing BFing with a TT is like swimming with concrete blocks on your legs. If you can possibly afford it, go private to avoid waiting lists. I had a conversation with a preg friend the other day on this...its about £150 I believe. It takes seconds literally. You will save 150quid pretty quickly in not buying formula.

your DP has behaved appallingly and you deserve better. I will be charitable and hope it is because in a highly misguided way he is trying to help the baby. perhaps after you have spoken with a BF helpline, Include him in the calls so he can hear advice from a third party.

PS If you get sore nipples....get the HV or GP to prescribe Atrauman dressings. If fact, get some now sp you have them in the cupboard ready if you need them. They are SOOOOOO good and probably helped me get through the agonising stage.

Very warmest wishes, keep posting to give us an update
Xx

Surely the tongue tie is what is causing the frothy poo.

That really needs to be sorted, once that is snipped the poo should improve and your supply should be able to keep up. If the breast isnt being fully drained then you will start to make less.

You need to get the TT seen to.

As for the husband not giving you the baby, well Im not sure I can help you there because you and I are obviously very different people because Id have ripped him another arse hole.

Hi. Haven't managed to read all posts. I bf with tt. We needed nipple shields for three months And now fine without. Emptied breast is never really empty but will feel limp in comparison. To start of feed.

there has been loads of really good advice on the breastfeeding side of your question, so i won't say any more other than please call breastfeeding helpline and try to see a bf counsellor face to face!
in response to the other elements of your post, you need your oh to help and support you. my dh was useless tired so when ds woke for feeds he would go and get me a drink and head off to spare room, i used to go to bed very early, e.g as early as i could settle ds, 8pm was good!! i would make sure i had a drink by the bed and some biscuits too! worth having stuff for nappy change stuff near the bed too!
its a very tiring time and i admire that you are trying to go away for Christmas, please be a very lazy guest, sit down lots, let your oh seem the perfect dad by bringing you drinks and snacks, feed as often as you and dd want, taking yourself off to another room or the bedroom if you are happier or even just if you want some quiet time. don't feel you need to pass the baby round, she will be happiest snuggled up with you and any offers of 'help' should not separate you two (e.g other people feeding her!!)

You poor thing, can you get your health visitor or midwife to have a word with your partner? Has he had other children by the way (as he seems to know so much!)

I've not read other replies fully but I note you said you lost 2 litres of blood during delivery. Did you get a transfusion? Are you on iron tablets or spatone? I only ask as significant blood loss can affect milk supply, esp combined with a less than perfect latch. Both happened to me unfortunately. As exhausting as it is, baby needs unrestricted access to feed directly from you right now. Others can help by doing housework, making food etc.
Get the tounge tie snipped asap. La Leche League are a great resource.
I'd also add that as someone else said, it IS possible to combination feed long term (I did) so if you want to, then read up on it and do it. I wish I'd used nipple shields as I had bad nipple pain but was advised against doing so by BF counsellors. Even so, a friend successfully and exclusively breast fed her baby til past a year and only stopped using nipple shields after about ten months. The KellyMom website is also a great source of breastfeeding info.

Congratulations on your new baby

Instead of phoning a helpline can you get someone to come out and talk to you both? I find when me and DH have conflicting opinions on something like this then talking to an expert together really helps.

I've done exclusive expressing before (DS4 has a cleft palate and he was born by section too) and it's really hard work. Not something I'd ever recommend unless you have to.

I've not really read through all the replies but re nipple shields I've used them now for ten and bit months and they've never bothered my supply or her feeding. And she's been exclusively bf that whole time.

Hope u can get some expert advice and support breast feeding workers certainly helped me. And congratulations on your new baby

Hi, sounds like your doing a great job with breastfeeding in very differcult circumstances. Your dh is being an arse, and you did the right thing to get your fil involved.

I would be connecting your hv and getting advice and support off her and getting an appointment to get the tongue tie snipped ASAP. Nipple shields can be useful but there not a great long term solution. Phone one of the breastfeeding helplines for support. Go to a breastfeeding support group as well.
I'm not defending your dh in anyway, how he acted was wrong on so may levels. Is he normally so controlling? However my dh took a while to get used to me breastfeeding. Having come from a formula feeding family, and his first ds was formula fed, he couldn't get his head around the feeding on demand thing. He used to actually time inbetween feeds thinking he was helping! I had to get the hv to sit down and really explain it all to him. In other words just because ds needed another feed 10 minutes after finishing one feed,it didn't mean my milk was shit or I was doing it wrong. Once he understood this and could see that ds was happy and gaining weight well he was fine with it and very supportive. I think he was just reallly worried during the first few weeks and probably felt a bit useless. I let him deal 100 % with weaning onto solids which he loved doing. He spent ages making little tubs of food, deciding when to introduce something new into his diet etc. perhaps this could be a sort of compromise with you? Eg you decide the milk feeds he decides the solids once the time comes.

Thanks so much everyone for your kind words and advice, I'm overwhelmed with how nice you have all been!

OH was working 7-1.30 today (more fool him for staying up half the night with the baby!) so I had a bit of a chance to talk to Fil. I told him I was feeling worried about going as we are staying with OH's Grandma who I don't know well. So I would feel uncomfortable trying to assert myself in her house. He said that while he agrees that OH was out of order, he was doing what he did out of (misguided) care for the baby. I do agree but his behaviour was ridiculous and extremely controlling. I spent hours crying last night and OH did try to comfort me but it was a bit 'too little, too late'.

When OH got home from work today he was very sheepish and apologetic. I let him know that his behaviour was completely out of order and I agreed (although he also kind of tried to do the whole 'we were both just tired'). I know he was just trying to do what he thought was best for the baby. He of course loves her so much and has been a great support in these first few weeks, other than this incident.

It wasn't the antibiotics affecting her poo because I only started them yesterday.

I have explained to OH fully what the doctor said about how it is quite normal and doesn't mean she is ill. I must admit I was very tired and upset when I got her back from the doctors on Saturday because it was late at night and I was feeling ill, so I didn't fully explain everything I'd been told. Not defending him because his behaviour was totally wrong regardless of reasoning, just a bit of explanation.

The HV did say I can get her TT fixed if I want. I was going on previous advice given by MW about how nipple shields were fine and since she was gaining weight, was all ok. Also because OH had a TT as a baby and it was all fine and didn't need cut. I think hers is quite bad though as I can't get her to latch at all without the shields, she just tries to lick at it for a bit then cries. I'm definitely going to explore getting it cut when we're home and I next speak to HV.

She did seem to be in quite obvious pain and discomfort when breaking wind or pooing because she would cry, rather than it just being a face she did. Also she screams blue murder any time her nappy is changed but is quite placid otherwise, so I was a bit concerned. I've been assured by doctor she is fine though :)

For the visit to OH family, (in the car not about 3/4 of the way there, yay!) I am happy to keep BF using the nipple shields and expressing a bit if I need to. I'm keen to get a longer term solution in place, but would rather just keep going how I am during this visit (5 days).

Thanks again everyone. Think I have answered everything!

It's completely normal for a newborn to scream blue murder every nappy change, think my DS was about 3 months when he outgrew that :)

Both my children screamed like they were being boiled alive when thy had their nappies changed as newborns. I think they didn't like having a cold bum!

As it is Christmas so your dh is off work can you make tomorrow a "baby bed" day - basically you and the baby stay in bed all day. Gives you time to bond, helps with the milk and even if you don't sleep at least you get some rest. Get your Oh to bring you food and drinks. Obviously awkward when staying with family but if you explain they should understand.

Oooh - and as one PPH-er to another I recommend Spa-tone and Lactolose! Iron tablets are awful awful things!

SuperLovefuzz I'm glad you sound happier but I really hope that you do some more research into breast feeding and get some support as people have suggested on this thread.

Also I recommend that you send your DH online to do some research too- get him to read some articles on kellymom- you are both struggling due to a lack of correct information on breast feeding. (Your breasts won't empty, you can not measure how much your baby gets from your breast as she will be far better at 'milking' than you will with a pump, and you really really won't need to top her up unless she is not putting weight on at a healthy rate)

My DS is 8 months. He has a tt which they wouldn't snip. First two weeks were very painful for feeding, by three weeks the feed was pain free but the latching was agony, by 4-5 weeks we were smooth sailing and he is still breastfeeding now.

You can totally do this- get some advice and hopefully in a month you will be able to just pop out with your baby whenever and not worry about bottles etc, as you can just pop her on the boob if she's hungry. It's totally brilliant but I sympathise as I remember the pain and it's frickin awful

Good luck OP x

OP I'm glad you sound happier.
Just a quick point - not all MW's are breastfeeding specialists (no criticism here, just stating fact) so contacting a Lactation consultant or BF counsellor is the way to go. I think you've had links upthread?
Hope you have a lovely Christmas. Please try to relax and enjoy. Remember you've had major surgery (Mum talking now lol).

Get your hv or GP to refer you to get the TT snipped. I used to work with TT babies and it can make a massive difference to feeding. Plus in some babies it can help with their speech in later life. It's a very quick procedure but its much easier to get it done whilst she's tiny.

I think you need to contact your mw and refer to a bf clinic or go to local bf groups or contact la leche league for support or a lactation counsellor in your area.

Your DH is being an arse.

superlovefuzz I hope Christmas goes well for you.

In the early days, feeding as often as your baby wants is good for establishing your supply. Your baby is still so tiny, and may be giving you the added bonus of a growth spurt... I agree with everyone else about the poo situation - while it might be an indicator of something to think about, it's not a crisis. I also agree about the fore/hind milk thing - it's not as clear cut as it's been made out to be, so I've stopped fretting about it.

I hope that you can get the tt sorted so that you can start feeding in a less stressful way. I really do sympathise; at two weeks my baby was only just starting to feed after spending a week in SCBU, and it was monstrously hard. I have a lot of admiration that you're making a long car journey and staying away right now.

I really recommend a local breastfeeding cafe - this saved me when I was desperate and having a bad time. BF counsellors also make home visits.

Have a good Christmas, and keep doing what you're doing - you're doing great.