To be irritated by people on C4 news taking out payday loans

[SilverSixpence]

I am at people taking out loans to buy brand new fridge freezers and playstations from Bright House instead of buying secondhand/doing without if they can't afford it. 8 year olds are old enough to understand they cant have the latest thing if their parents can't afford it. If your kids are influenced by ads just turn them off! Isn't this basic common sense?

I'm not cross at parents who're under pressure but they need a strategy to say no
As kid if we asked fc a ££present we didn't get the exact ££ one but something similar from market
If you have limited means you buy what you can,it's heartache to get debt over Xmas

We also don't 'do' letters to Santa.

I find nothing more distasteful than seeing children writing a 'list' of stuff they want. IMO it negates the whole point of Christmas.

My two visit Santa and tell him what they want - just their one main present. This year ds1 wanted a 'car race track' and ds2 wanted a pretend fishing rod.

I would never encourage a 'list'. My mum still badgers my sisters for their 'list' - they are 22 and 15!

If you only go out and buy someone something off a list of pre-decided items it kind of takes any joy out of receiving it IMO.

I'm not cross at parents who're under pressure but they need a strategy to say no

Which is actually the problem. I suspect that people who are so in thrall to their children that they're willing to pay a zillion percent APR in order to buy a games console have other parenting problems as well. Being able to say "no" is a skill, and it's not just for Christmas. Interventions into problem families are often about moving the balance of power from the children back to the parents.

DS understands that while Santa can bring some exciting things, he gets the money for those things from Mum and Dad. As such he understands that while he might WANT something there is no guarantee it will be bought for him if the money isnt there.

Tbh Santa usually replaces the broken pens, brings colouring books and stocking fillers, Big stuff comes as joint family gifts.

I would NEVER get int debt to buy consoles, TVs etc......and Brighthouse can take a hike.

I do fee sad for people who have no option but to use them for the necessities.

Or maybe parents who have to say no all year round to things like day trips etc actually just get to a point of f**k it at Christmas. For once I might just get them what they want as to see that smile will maybe be what keeps them going for another year. I am not saying this is the best thing to do but it's got to be damn hard.

To actually say that these people have other parenting problems is a huige generalization.

I will explain what I meant in my original posts however. Not everyone is able to "save" all year for something and sometimes paying a little a week is an easier solution.

For example when DD was very young I left her father with not a hell of alot. I was hugely fortunate that I had family and friends who were willing and able to help me out. If I hadn't had that support network I may have found myself looking at places like brighthouse. I left not far off Christmas and if DD had been older I would have probably gone to a payday loan company or a place I could buy gifts on credit to get her, her gifts, luckily she was too young to understand.

The reason I barely had a penny to my name even though I had known for a while I would most likely be leaving was due to her fathers alcoholism. Do you think that the wives of these men can stash away money every week? Or do you think that in a lot of cases every penny left in a bank account is taken from them. Many of you will say you could have taken some and put it in another account or hide it in the house but for alot of these women the fear that their partner or husband will find out they are keeping money separate will faaaar outweigh paying an inflated APR.

This is one example of why people may feel the need to use companies such as this.

fatlazymummy it is not an attitude I have, I am just not that narrow minded that I can't see why people would turn to these companies. Throughout all my posts I have solely spoken about essentials and the want to spoil your kids a bit one day a year. What your friend did can not be compared to what I am talking about because she bought something for herself that she wanted because she didn't want to wait.

You don't know why these people go to these companies so why judge?

The problem with the non-judgemental is that they want it both ways. So, I point out that one of the common threads running through high-debt situations is poor parenting, see also "my son was in the riot because I can't stop him going out at night", "my son doesn't go to school I've tried but he just won't", etc. There's a bloody good reason why one of the more effective interventions into troubled families is parenting classes, and often that's about saying to people "you can say no, you know". How often is MN full of discussions about boundaries, rules, limits, etc?

But, "To actually say that these people have other parenting problems is a huge generalization".

OK. But then as a counterbalance to my unacceptable generalisation, we have fathers who are alcoholics who take all their wives' money. What, all of Brighthouse's customers? Some of them? How many? Doesn't that smack of an equally sweeping generalisation. What proportion of people who take out high-interest loans for stuff they don't need are helpless victims, and what proportion are making bad choices through lack of education, empowerment and knowledge?

It's crazy that we've ended up in a situation where it's considered judgmental and right-wing to suggest that people who make bad decisions should be helped to make better ones, and liberal and fluffy and generally nicer to play "the poor will always be with us" and list all the reasons why people have neither choices nor moral agency.

MissWinter - I know I am lucky that I have never been in the position of having to say 'no' all year, but I can imagine how soul-destroying it must be, and why people would turn to someone like Brighthouse, in order to be able to say 'Yes' to their children's christmas wishes. It is just sickening that companies are prepared to take advantage of that desperation.

Friday This is one example of why people may feel the need to use companies such as this. one example, my example why I could have fallen into this type of thing. I am not saying that every Brighthouse customer who walks through the door is in that position. Infact what I said was if you don't know someone's situation why should you get to judge.

SDIGisAnEvilWolefGenius I couldn't agree more, I am fortunate too that I haven't had to do this. I'm going to stop posting on this thread because I struggle to read from people who have never been in this position or even close to it and completely fail to see why somebody would.

Have a Great Christmas everyone!

Sometimes the poor are praised for being thrifty. But to recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less. For a town or country labourer to practise thrift would be absolutely immoral. Man should not be ready to show that he can live like a badly-fed animal. He should decline to live like that, and should either steal or go on the rates, which is considered by many to be a form of stealing. As for begging, it is safer to beg than to take, but it is finer to take than to beg. No: a poor man who is ungrateful, unthrifty, discontented, and rebellious, is probably a real personality, and has much in him. He is at any rate a healthy protest. As for the virtuous poor, one can pity them, of course, but one cannot possibly admire them. They have made private terms with the enemy, and sold their birthright for very bad pottage. They must also be extraordinarily stupid. I can quite understand a man accepting laws that protect private property, and admit of its accumulation, as long as he himself is able under those conditions to realise some form of beautiful and intellectual life. But it is almost incredible to me how a man whose life is marred and made hideous by such laws can possibly acquiesce in their continuance.

Can I ask why MN can't have a paypal or "buy" facility? I would rather be trolled and ripped off and share what I have. Some of the posts on here have affected me deeply.

I'm actually pretty taken aback by this writing to Santa and wishes must be granted approach. There was another thread about it. Mine don't write to Santa. I don't like seeing children list what they want. It's unattractive. I know that this will bring down a storm of killjoy accusations but I feel sure of my decision. And I have never had to panic that I can't afford what my child wants.

Who are Brighthouse's customers? I bet they know perfectly well who their target market is?

"More than 50% of his customers will be wholly or partially on benefits; if they work, most will do so part time; the average customer will be aged between 26 and 45, with a household income of £13,000; mostly they are female."

This is from a Guardian article.

I actually wasn't intending on commenting again but I will give the figures I have just worked out for myself:-

Rent £600 pcm
Council Tax £92 pcm
Electric £60 pcm
Gas £34 pcm
Food £150 pcm
Childcare £346 pcm

This alone over a year equates to £15,384. If I had to live on £13,000 a year I would be living in debt every single month. To the people who say "save a little". Erm.... Where about??

MissWinter01Fri 20-Dec-13 12:05:15

Or maybe parents who have to say no all year round to things like day trips etc actually just get to a point of f**k it at Christmas. For once

Youve just reminded me of something actually. Ive seen threads about school trips on here where posters who are on low incomes have been told by certain MNers to save up because "after all you know these trips are coming" Sooooooooo if you are expected to save up for this and save up all year round for Christmas AND save up in case something breaks down then WTF will a person on a low income have left to live on exactly...from day to day. If the people on lower incomes were to take all this "saving up advice" they wouldnt have any money for food. And then if they try to access a food bank they would then be accused of trying to con them as they have money they have set aside for a school trip/replacement cooker.

There is no escape from these attitudes cos whatever the poorer person does they will be in the wrong.
Classist , social gaslighting!!!!!

but if you have the money to pay brighthouse, you do have the money to save. otherwise what are you paying BH with?

the difference is, that if you save you get nothing is the short term. as a society we do not encourage differed pleasure, even though this is one of the largest determinants of success in life (according to research).

this affects many people across all incomes but has the worst consequences on those on lowest incomes.

that if you save you get nothing is the short term. as a society we do not encourage differed pleasure

Isn't one of the oft-suggested differences between stereotypical middle-class and stereotypical working-class culture precisely that?

I've always thought it's a rather weak argument, because the critical difference is that the middle classes are already OK for money and are saving (investing time in education, whatever) for more, whereas other people are starting from a lower base which isn't as palatable to start with. It's one thing to save for a new car when you've got a perfectly serviceable one, it's another to save for a car while walking everywhere.

So I don't think it's true to say that as a society in the large there is no taste for deferred gratification. But I'm not sure that it's a terribly helpful thing to say to people who have little to start with.

I will say this for last time.

You cant save the 10 pounds a week because you spend that and more than that to wash and dry 2 loads at the laudrette!! How difficult is to get this?

But if they buy an AA rating from bh and wash at home then they can save the 10 pounds pw. It is crazy to pay higher price i agree. But thats how it is when you are poor. You face crazy situations every day.

Its totally difference than being comfortable and fancy to do 'money saving challenges'. Everybody can do that. You dont need to be better at maths.

but if you have the money to pay brighthouse, you do have the money to save. otherwise what are you paying BH with?

This as got to be one of the posts that really highlight the differences between people. Its really very simple,

Skint lone parent gets to pay under a tenner a week for her children's entertainment the children have this entertainment already in there house.

Its a damn sight easier to feed your kids whilst pretending your not hungry yourself and skipping meals to knock a few quid off your shopping bill or to walk 4/5 miles to town and back whilst your kids are at school to do the shopping to save the £4 bus fair so your children can keep a perfectly normal household entertainment item, than it is to do it when you have savings in the bank and don't have the item.

The poor get stuffed more royally than the rich. That's true. But I hate those companies. I hate the wonga type companies. I hate credit cards. I hate the fact they're called credit cards when they are in fact debit cards. I bet for every person who manages a BH repayment plan adequately, there are people who end up handing over a large percentage of their already low incomes to the vampires. I read something about the CofE wanting to do something (can't remember the details) and they should. Because those companies are a force for bad.

I hate the fact they're called credit cards when they are in fact debit cards.

I suspect you mean "I hate the fact they're called credit cards when they are in fact debt cards." That's an occasion when the spelling really does matter.

Ooops. I do mean that. Debt cards. Darn it. Thanks.

Shit, just looked at Brighthouse. How can that be legal? At least the "club books" of the 70s and 80s (which my husband assures me were the only reason he had correct school uniform) were interest free.

I looked at Brighthouse as well, why would you have to buy a 55" TV anyway, would a 26" or 32" not be OK instead.