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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that "attendence policies" and schools have become ridicolous

87 replies

ReallyTired · 17/12/2013 22:41

DD is four years and is reception. She has had two days off this term due to a tonsilitis and a severe ear infection. Our GP has refered dd for a hearing test as she is complaining about her hearing and missed the school nurse test.

We got a telephone call today from audiology asking if we can take a short notice cancellation. (this Friday at 11.30am) I have decided to jump at the opportunity to have dd's ears tested. Audiology will post a letter but it may not arrive by Friday.

I phoned the school and told them that next Friday I would pick up dd for her hearing test at 11.10 and she would hopefully return to school by 12.30. The secretary told me that if I do not have a letter proving that dd has a medical appointment that the school will not release my daughter to me.

I have told the school that if there is any question of them refusing to let my daughter go to the appointment then I will not send her into school until the afternoon. The pompeous secretary told me that her absence will be marked as unauthorised and I will be fined. Apparently I have to produce proof that dd is having a hearing test. I replied and said that there is no legal requirement to send a four year old to school.

I feel that the school has got completely and utterly up their own arses. Surely its in a child's interest to have their hearing check asap if there is any question of deafness.

OP posts:
passedgo · 18/12/2013 11:06

I think a story in the local paper would be an excellent idea. The governors will all read it, and all the other schools will learn from it and lighten up their policies accordingly. They are only being heavy-handed because all schools are in competition with each other locally.

fedup21 · 18/12/2013 11:11

I think a story in the local paper would be an excellent idea.

It would highlight the ridiculousness of the whole thing!

I wonder if the head would agree with the secretary or if she's doing it off her own back? Some are a bit like dragons! Two secretaries in my friend's school had a 'managed retirement' recently because they were just like this. The head had no idea how bad they really were, but the receptionists made things v difficult for parents-were unfriendly, unhelpful and obstructive. They are now gone and there is a lovely helpful smiley lady there now who the parents and the head love!

Phaush · 18/12/2013 11:13

DecktheHalls beat me to it. She's 4. She doesn't have to go to school at all.

Sounds like the school have a staff-training issue.

I wonder also how they expect the NHS to cope when all parents want appointments for their children out of school hours?

TheBigJessie · 18/12/2013 11:30

wonder also how they expect the NHS to cope when all parents want appointments for their children out of school hours?

The same way they expect the NHS to cope when they demand parents drag sick children to the doctors' surgery for a sick note to cover their absence from school. Despite NHS guidelines that say, "please, please don't go to the doctor if you have D&V without complication" (paraphrasing)

fedup21 what is WSS? Don't know that one.

fluffyraggies · 18/12/2013 11:34

This is unbelievable! Not 'release' your DD to you?

Christ i'd be bloody fuming OP.

I'd keep your DD off for the morning on that day, yes. AND i'd be going in for a chat with HT. Ask if what the receptionist said to you reflected school policy (the not releasing without a letter, and getting a fine for a medical appt. crap bit) and look into this further.

Fined? For taking your four year old out of school for 2 hours!

TheArticFunky · 18/12/2013 11:37

It would seem that a lot of administrative teams in schools have a problem with applying common sense. They don't seem to have the ability to deviate from the standard norm and exercise reasoning skills.

deepfriedsage · 18/12/2013 11:44

I think it is a training issue and a narcacistic attitude of the school, who don't think about other's, be it NHS or family life. It is all about the school and their superior needs. By the very nature educators are all about beingsuperior to the child and it attracts a certain type of personality into the profession.

Ubik1 · 18/12/2013 11:47

I think re children medical info - you need to clarify with them why they need the letter and what they intend to do with the information, whether it will be held on file, who will have access to it.

I would just take her out for the hearing test. Write an email to the headteacher stating what has happened and asking for clarification.

I live in Scotland and attendance policies seem far more sensible up here. Have never been queried even when DD2 had a bad year with chest infections, cold, chickenpox, scarlet fever - little kids get ill, it's part of being a little kid.

Ubik1 · 18/12/2013 11:48

"it's all about the school,"

yy to this

An institution being run for the benefit of the institution not the children

friday16 · 18/12/2013 11:49

It would seem that a lot of administrative teams in schools have a problem with applying common sense.

It's hardly just the administrative staff. As happened at Mid Staffs, too many senior staff appear willing to say "the government made me do it" and use that as an excuse for acting inhumanely. One of the reasons senior managers are paid the big bucks is to make decisions, rather than simply pass responsibility upwards.

fedup21 · 18/12/2013 11:50

Sorry-WSS is 'what she said' (ie, I agree with you!)

x

fedup21 · 18/12/2013 11:53

By the very nature educators are all about beingsuperior to the child and it attracts a certain type of personality into the profession.

To be fair on 'the profession'-it itsn't a teacher that has made this bonkers 'if you do not have a letter proving that dd has a medical appointment that the school will not release your daughter' statement to the OP!

passedgo · 18/12/2013 12:40

As she's only 4, and we now know has no duty to be at school, you should definitely use the words 'Preventing medical treatment' 'insitutional neglect' and possibly 'child abuse' when you next discuss this with them.

passedgo · 18/12/2013 12:43

And mention 'it would make a great news story actually, I can see it now...'

TheBigJessie · 18/12/2013 12:47

fedup21 ah, seems obvious now! Grin

IamInvisible · 18/12/2013 13:15

DS2 needs surgery on his shoulder following an accident he had in school last February. He has been given a date for January. I phoned the school on Monday, they said I needed to send in the original letter, not a photocopy, with a covering letter to the HT requesting permission for him to be absent! Shock

I'm not doing it, the week before he goes in, I shall send a letter in saying DS2 is having an operation on Tuesday so won't be in for the rest of the week, and I will photocopy the letter from the hospital.

TheBigJessie · 18/12/2013 13:29

iaminvisible Shock how does anyone justify such ludicrous demands to themselves, never mind anyone else?

How can anyone on the management team be so arrogant that they think they are entitled to tell parents they need the school's permission to get medical treatment for their child? And he got this injury at the school in the first place?

They are entitled to notification, but they are not in a position to give permission. Permission is intrinsically something that can be denied!

friday16 · 18/12/2013 13:43

How can anyone on the management team be so arrogant that they think they are entitled to tell parents

Let me tell you my theory about the problem public sector management faces.

Suppose you're the CEO of private sector company. You wake up one morning, and you find a note on your pillow telling you that henceforth you're going to have to follow some expensive new procedure to avoid the risk of either regulator action or a court case. You convene a quick meeting with your solicitor and some appropriate seniors, and you evaluate what the procedure will cost, what the worst case punishment is for not following it, and what the risk is of getting caught. From that you decide to comply wholly, partially or not at all. And you might, if the requirements are onerous, make representations via the CBI or your chamber of commerce to the government, and you'll get an audience.

Suppose you're the CEO of a public sector enterprise like a school, and the same thing happens. You don't have immediate access to legal advice, so you tend to follow what's on the paper in front of you. The costs of compliance are often non-financial (here it involves "being shitty to parents"). And the implied cost of failure is infinite (getting put into special measures and losing your job). And if you complain, no-one will listen. So you have no choice but to comply, and comply in spades.

So it's very tempting to over-deliver. You place an unrealistically low value on the cost of compliance, and a massively high value on the cost of non-compliance. You're terrified of the consequences, and unconcerned about the cost.

CranberrySaucyJack · 18/12/2013 13:49

How ridiculous.

Not to mention that if it had been a standard medical appt with your usual GP or practice nurse you wouldn't have a letter anyway.

TheBigJessie · 18/12/2013 14:23

friday that makes sense, but I have to ask, given the language is of "permission", aren't they under the impression they can say no? So, does "child's physical welfare" get consciously included in that little risk:reward calculation, or do the ramifications of refusing an absence for medical treatment just pass over their heads? Possibly in a Someone Else's Problem field?

deepfriedsage · 18/12/2013 14:49

These HT can if a large academy be on a six figure salary, my heart bleeds for them.

friday16 · 18/12/2013 14:58

given the language is of "permission", aren't they under the impression they can say no

I don't think they have the slightest idea what the limits are on their authority, and are making it up as they go along.

do the ramifications of refusing an absence for medical treatment just pass over their heads

Yes.

friday16 · 18/12/2013 15:01

These HT can if a large academy be on a six figure salary

It isn't heads of large academies causing these problems. They have proper grown-up lawyers, for a start off. These sorts of sagas are almost always about small primaries.

deepfriedsage · 18/12/2013 15:06

A HT of a large academy refused a disabled parent a disability aid, he didn't speak to a solicitor he spoke to a union rep who said it was ok to behave that way, he only spoke to a solicitor after a link to the law he broke, he didn't apologise he blamed his union rep.

SouthernComforts · 18/12/2013 15:06

Is Friday the last day before breaking up for Christmas? If so then the school is being even more ridiculous. I'd keep dd off all day and start the Christmas holidays early.