To think that "attendence policies" and schools have become ridicolous

[ReallyTired]

DD is four years and is reception. She has had two days off this term due to a tonsilitis and a severe ear infection. Our GP has refered dd for a hearing test as she is complaining about her hearing and missed the school nurse test.

We got a telephone call today from audiology asking if we can take a short notice cancellation. (this Friday at 11.30am) I have decided to jump at the opportunity to have dd's ears tested. Audiology will post a letter but it may not arrive by Friday.

I phoned the school and told them that next Friday I would pick up dd for her hearing test at 11.10 and she would hopefully return to school by 12.30. The secretary told me that if I do not have a letter proving that dd has a medical appointment that the school will not release my daughter to me.

I have told the school that if there is any question of them refusing to let my daughter go to the appointment then I will not send her into school until the afternoon. The pompeous secretary told me that her absence will be marked as unauthorised and I will be fined. Apparently I have to produce proof that dd is having a hearing test. I replied and said that there is no legal requirement to send a four year old to school.

I feel that the school has got completely and utterly up their own arses. Surely its in a child's interest to have their hearing check asap if there is any question of deafness.

What millennium said and if the head gets arsey tell him/her you'll look out for their correspondence on the matter.

Legally they cannot prevent someone with PR taking a child out of school - for any reason - as far as I know.

Utterly ridiculous.

I heard it's often more to do with attendance targets and the impact on OFSTED ratings than out of any real concern for the children's education.

I completely agree with this. I have several teacher friends who work in inner city schools with high levels of disadvantage, and very ethnically diverse intakes. I'll probably get flamed for this but they have told me things that would suggest that over recent years since schools in many areas have coped with a sudden huge influx of children of immigrants from all over the world, (or from, for example, gypsy and traveller children) whose parents often have a very different cultural attitude to the fixed calendar/commitment that school demands, and children are often withdrawn for prolonged periods with no notice, and then turn up again out of the blue, expecting their place to be there just as they left it and some parents (not necessarily ethnic minority) just see school as a part-time optional extra and their week by week attendance is very patchy, from a very young age.

If you are in a school with a high proportion of 'disadvantaged' children getting pupil premium, high numbers of children with English as an additional language, etc, etc, then you need to keep those results looking good f you are not to slip into special measures, and you can't do that if half the kids aren't there for half the time.

The downside to this is that other people who do send their children to school regularly get caught up in the attempts at a hardline system, and get penalised for relatively small attendance misdemeanours.

Can I just clear something up? Yes, children do not legally have to be educated until the term after they are 5.

However, if you have chosen to send them to an educational setting before this point, you need to abide by the attendance policy there, if children's attendance is a concern then the school can follow it up the same as they can for older children (maybe not to the point of fining you, but they can certainly get the EWO etc involved).

This isn't aimed at the OP by the way- a medical appointment is certainly a good enough reason for absence! It's aimed at the people who think that as education isn't compulsory at age 4, that children don't therefore need to attend.

To the OP- I would wrote to the head and ask for clarification on the policy on medical appointments. Apart from anything else, I can't believe that the secretary thinks she has the right to see private and confidential documents relating to your child's health. The only time that proof should be sought is if there are concerns over a child's attendance and measures have been put in place to ensure that absences are justified.

"
However, if you have chosen to send them to an educational setting before this point, you need to abide by the attendance policy there, if children's attendance is a concern then the school can follow it up the same as they can for older children (maybe not to the point of fining you, but they can certainly get the EWO etc involved). "

I think an EWO would piss herself/himself laughing at dd's attendence being questioned.

I would be making a formal complaint wrt the secretary threatening refusal to hand over your child.

Some schools need reminding that you are your child's parent, not them and they should be pulled up on it when they make stupid statements like that.

As there is no legal obligation to send your child to school, the school holding your child, against your wishes is acting illegally.

yanbu at all it gets worse as they go through school , one of mine got an attendence (sp) letter because she used to go to the orthadontist I had to ring the school and rant about it, it drives me up the wall, it is imo just to make the schools look good genuine appointments and illness is jumped upon because parents allow their children off school for any little sniffle. take her to the appointment the school can do nothing, send in a note or a copy of the appointment card when she goes back

I would have asked to speak directly to the head.

Then again, I wouldn't have rung ahead, just sent a note in on the morning.

Or let her have the whole day off.

I don't like how head teachers seem to have an awful amount if control over our children. It's a joke. It will only get worse.

Definitely make a formal complaint about her threatening to withhold your DD, that is outrageous!

I think OFSTED do sometimes check files for medical appointment lettersnow. Dd2 has a regular appointment with her specialists, and they asked if we required a letter for the school (general letter stating she has appointments, not each time) as a lot of the schools now request them.

if I do not have a letter proving that dd has a medical appointment that the school will not release my daughter to me

YANBU if this is the kind of thing they are doing - I wonder if that could be classified legally as 'abduction' or 'extortion'?

Have a word with the Head about it.

Yes there is a fine for taking children out of school as unauthorized absence. However, this doesn't include visits to the doctor or the child being ill and let's face it, no one will have a document stating that their dc has an appointment to see X each time they need time off school.

Our school has asked parents to have appointments at the end of the morning or afternoon as much as possible because then the children are registered as present whereas if they miss 1.5 hour at the start of the morning/afternoon it counts as an absence. (So in effect what you are proposing is the best scenario possible!!)

As for 'not releasing your dd'

I think OFSTED do sometimes check files for medical appointment letters now

I'd be interested to see the school's data protection policy if they're holding large amounts of confidential medical data. I certainly wouldn't provide anything on an NHS letterhead to any school, as it's completely unnecessary. I've written to them to tell them where my child is. If they think I'm lying, then they can get the EWO involved who, as others have said, would piss themselves laughing.

I don't like how head teachers seem to have an awful amount if control is only true if you allow them to have it. Think of it as doing them a favour: pulling them up over trying to exceed their authority with a nice understanding MN poster who will just write a letter and fume a bit is sparing them from exceeding their authority with someone who decides to make the complaint rather more formal.

totally ott and bonkers.

Just go and get a print out from Dr if possible.

But completely agree with bohemian and Yo. Sadly it will be result of ofsted and safeguarding data/ pressures. My previous school got satisfactory rather than good a few years ago mainly as their attendance was poor. Deputy said - what more can I do? Inspector said 'you're doing everything you can'.

Legally teachers cannot withhold a child to anyone having parental responsibility. I once had to use my PR to remove my child from school after their mum failed to return the kids to me. Head checked with the LEA legal team and they confirmed what my solicitor had told me.

They of course can record the absence as unauthorised but really....who gives a shit?

Thell them if you don't release my child to me I am going to sue you for ABDUCTION, CHILD ABUSE (preventing medical treatment) AND EXTORTION

Idiots.

Maybe the secretary is worried that you'll have a quick mini break to Spain during the 1 hour 20 minutes absence.

Please kick up a stink its gone mad.

Its frightening and those that lie down and take it make it worse.

Imagine what this dreadful woman is saying to other poor parents.

Get your MP involved as well so he/she can see an example of it gone mad.

dargling

Just go and get a print out from Dr if possible

NO!! Why should she?!

She must not pander to this woman.

YANBU

Surely this Friday will be the last day of term before xmas hols, and they'll only be watching a film or having a xmas party anyway? So whats the big deal...

DD breaks up on Thursday and they've done precisely no work all week (3 school nativity plays, a trip to the panto, xmas party, carol service and a film). All of which she's enjoyed immensely, and I don't mind at all, but hardly a big deal if she misses an hour or two...

CHILDREN ARE HUMAN BEINGS NOT DELIVERY ITEMS.

It is getting stupid.
I dread to think how many poor attendance letters school wasted stamps on last year.

There was an evil virus (gave DD a secondary ear infection) and a nasty DV bug.

Lots of Staff as well as DCs got both, so they knew why attendance was awful. The HT said it was getting difficult finding supply teachers, so many teachers were ill.

Still the Ofsted targets insisted we all got a really patronising letter.

yes lie, you're right.

I'm just for an easy life at mo !

I would contact the HT and tell them what the secretary said, and point out that the logical consequence of this pronouncement is that you will be keeping your daughter off for the whole morning, not just the duration of the test, as previously planned. Then I would ask whether it was the intention of the school to make missing up to an entire school day the more practical option.

I would contact the HT and tell them what the secretary said, and point out that the logical consequence of this pronouncement is that you will be keeping your daughter off for the whole morning, not just the duration of the test, as previously planned. Then I would ask whether it was the intention of the school to make missing up to an entire school day the more practical option.

WSS-put it in a letter so they can stick in in their attendance file. Or in a pipe and smoke it ;)

Or ring the local paper!