To think I need to stop making excuses for my 4yo Ds's rude behaviour in public

[justkeeponsmiling]

My 4yo DS has always been shy. He hates meeting new people and can't stand being the centre of attention, which usually manifests in him throwing a tantrum. Since he has started school his behaviour has improved quite a lot, to the point where he was ok going up on stage for his schools christmas concert and sing a few songs without any major incident.
However, his behaviour when out in public with him is still a huge source of embarrassment for me. Whenever he is addressed by anyone (doesn't matter what age they are) he will refuse to look at them or respond in any way. If they continue talking to him he will either continue ignoring them or on occasions look at me and say something like "I don't want that lady to talk to me" or give them a Damien-from-the-Omen-like death stare. He will do this even with people he meets fairly regularly, like casual acquaintances of mine or other mums from school. With my close friends whom he sees regularly he is absolutely fine.
The thing is, I know exactly how he feels as I'm also quite shy and don't feel comfortable in social situations. However, I know by constantly saying things like oh I'm sorry he's having a bad day or he's really tired today I've allowed this behaviour to continue. As a result, I know many of the people who meet him and a lot of our wider circle think he is rude and generally not a very nice child. It makes me so sad as I know he really is a friendly, happy and really affectionate little boy and I know I've failed him by not teaching him to overcome his barriers. Those of my friends who know him well love him to bits but it has taken them a long time to build up a relationship with him and they were usually successful by generally ignoring him for ages until he was ready to approach them, which is what works best for him.
Im really at a loss as to how to teach him to be at least polite in public. Ive recently started to talk to him about it and tried to explain what I would like him to do and why (in basic terms, obviously), but to no real success.
I'm really hoping for some practical advice or tips on strategies I could use to teach him! Anybody who has been there and dealt with this successfully I would be endlessly grateful for your suggestions!

he is four. it is normal. pushing it is only going to cause more anxiety. just say that he is shy.

I would not think he is rude. it would be a weird adult who thought that of a four year old, especilly if you give the explantion that he is shy. another adult pushing it and insisting on a response would be unkind/rude.

there are far worse behaviours that he could be exhibiting when out. perhaps you are the one with the problem, in that you are shy and are embarressed about things that do not need to cause embarressment.

I can completely empathise OP, as my DD1 was much the same at that age. It was mortifying at times, because she would seem to be so rude to elderly dears in shops etc, but at the same time I really felt for her because I just knew she couldn't help it.

In her case, taking up some activities she enjoyed really helped to boost her confidence. Things like ballet where I would need to leave the room and she would have to speak to the teachers/other adults she didn't know well.

Mainly, though, I think it is something most children just grow out of (by around 6). In DD1's case, she will always be slightly shy, but is now able to talk to anyone, even adults she doesn't know, very confidently and politely.

My dd2 is a bit introverted - she spent the first year and a half deliberately looking the wrong way at the school gate where the headmaster stands to greet the children every morning. He will still steadfastly do his 'hello dd2' and I would give him my apologetic smile as she studied the state of the school gutters. One morning she finally said hello and he was so pleased.

For her it has taken a long time to feel comfortable in a situation but once she is comfortable she is happy and chatty. I have found that the more new situations she has encountered the easier it is for her to settle. She may still give long cold stares to people she doesn't know at Church etc but I just encourage her that it is ok to say hello but give a shrug if she then doesn't.

I think most adults should be able to recognise a shy child and back off. Those who don't are often those who pride themselves on being able to get on with everyone and I think their reaction is more about them and their feelings than understanding other people. They are the adult in the situation. If you know that the person will be important to the child - eg new teacher then you could tell them that he just takes a while to feel comfortable with new people, if it is random stranger then once you've given him permission to say hello (which is more for the adults' comfort that you both know that you are saying that there is nothing wrong with saying hello to the person), move on with the conversation, there will no doubt be other children along in a bit like dd1 & ds who are happy to smile and say hello.

This could be my little daughter you are describing OP - she is 4 too, and a real shy pie.
It's just like you say, someone speaks to her, and unless they are very well known to her, she either hides her face or gives them the death glare. She seems rude and unfriendly.
She cannot bear to have attention focused on her at all either...for example, last week she tripped over in the playground and was extremely disgruntled about it, having a crap morning at nursery and being extra standoffish with staff and even other children, not because she hurt herself, but because several people turned to look when she fell. She just couldn't cope with the eyes on her at all.
She is a happy, noisy cheerful girl with us at home and enjoys her siblings company immensely. She also enjoys having friends over to play in a small group...but as soon as there are more than two or three, she retreats into her shell and keeps her distance.

Having done some research in how to deal with a shy child, one thing I have picked up, is that it is NOT a good idea to explain to people that they are shy. The reason for that is, that it becomes a label to live up to. If you explain " sorry - he's very shy" then the child will see that as a get out clause and think "oh well...I'm shy, so I don't have to speak to people or make the effort"...and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

I say "she takes a while to warm up I'm afraid" or "she's a very cautious child, please don't take it personally" instead. I strenuously avoid using the word 'shy'.

Personally, I think she takes after my dh who is shy and an introvert as well. His parents never dealt with his chronic shyness, both being shy and repressed themselves, and he has always felt like he's on the outside of life, looking in.
I am an extrovert, and find that my gentle encouragement and cajoling is slowly chipping away at her outer shell. She stood up and said a whole line herself at the nursery nativity on Monday there....something she would never have done six months ago. I was sooooooo proud of her!

I think at 4 he is far too young to be thought of as 'rude'. He's barely out of nappies in the scheme of things! My daughters are pretty gregarious but i know not all children are like that and many times I've been blanked by friends' children at that age. Some of them become more outgoing as they get older, some don't. It's not rude and I'm never offended, it's just that social interaction, especially with adults you don't know very well, can feel pretty onerous at that age.

Get hold of a book called "understanding your child's temperament". I forget the author but I think it's William Someone (will check later if I can). It has really helpful hints for parents who need to manage behaviours they are not necessarily comfortable with. I have found it very helpful in the past and am actually meaning to re read it as ds has got older and I could do with some new advice.

[needless to say, I think someone on here recommended it to me in the first place!]

Found it - remembered I bought it on my kindle so checked my library. William b Carey.

He doesn't sound like he has autism. He just sounds shy and has that 4 year old honesty thing going on.

Although autism isn't about not having empathy. .must correct that myth

My dd is 2.10 and won't speak to random strangers either, she's partially deaf so i say it's that but I think that she just can't be bothered iyswim?
I think it shows character, why should she chat to people she doesn't know?

DD was like that at 4 for quite a few years . She had dyspraxia which didn't help. I didn't ever say she was shy as wary of givin a label and would quickly divert the conversation when I could see it was about to become an issue.

She struggled for years if I'm honest, until upper school. I spent the whole summer saying 'fake it till you make it' and told her to smile when people talk to her, explained no one will know how she was feeling inside and that if she kept practising it will get easier. That worked really well and now at nearly 15 she's much better and her dream is to go abroad next summer halfway across the world on the Rotary Youth Exchange, where she'd be on her own in a very different culture.

Dd2 is just the same. She takes a few hours each time just ti warm up to her grandparents. She's not quite 4 and very sociable and friendly with people she sees every day, but people she sees more rarely than that are given a death stare.

You should have seen her reaction to Santa! She clung to me and refused to even look at him, but we couldn't leave til I'd told Santa what she wants.

We don't make a big fuss of it, but keep gently talking about how it makes people happy if she says hello. I was just the same at that age but I'm quite polite now, so I'm sure she'll grow out of it eventually.

Saying things like 'he's shy' is likely to perpetuate it. Most adults can see that without being told and shouldn't take offence. A good friend's three year old is yet to speak to me, but I don't take it personally!
He will learn from you. If you walk up confidently to others, chat to checkout assistants etc., he will get the message. Good luck.

My ds was like this! The way in which I started to help him overcome this was by talking to him about the fact that adults are actually a bit dull and will only ever ask him one of about 4 questions : how old are you? Do you like school? Etc etc or make one of about 4 comments: havent you grown?! etc etc. Its true!! We made it into a sort of game like bingo. I gave him some ideas about stock replies and when, inevitably, someone asked one of the usual questions, he beamed at me and rattled off the answer. Great for his confidence and ended for me the kind of embarrassment you describe, hating the fact that people seem to think that he was not a nice little boy!!

I love that idea whatif!

I was going to ask if you're sure people think he's rude? Whenever I see friends with small children they always need a while to 'warm up', even if I know them well, and I never expect a big greeting or even anything at all until I've been there a while - I will say hello but never push it as I don't expect them to launch into conversation.

I would go for some gentle lighthearted role-playing to practise and build confidence for the future but otherwise don't apologise too much for him - most people would just think he's a small child and nothing else.

Thanks everyone! I find it really comforting to hear so many children are behaving the same and that they can be helped to deal with their shyness. It will definitely make me cringe a little less next time...
shoe Thanks for the book tip! Ive just googled it and it sounds fascinating, I'm going to try and find it as a hardcopy as opposed to kindle so I can force encourage DH to read it too!

Got it :)

Jupiter I'm sure quite a few people think he's rude. You should see his death-stare, I really can't blame them! My older DDs karate teacher, whom he sees/ignores/glares at about once a week recently said "gosh, he really doesn't like me, does he!" :( She's lovely, I felt terrible!

My 2 were exactley the same - i often found the parents who were judgey and inferred "they should surely know by now it's just rude?" had absolutely zero experience of shyness, couldnot grasp that the 4 yr old (i mean seriously, just 4....?!) who couldn't bare to say "hello" and would visibly blush as they felt so acutely uncomfortable, was not just "bad manners". I was the same when small and vividly remember feeling acutely embarrassed and yes humiliated as i was well aware even at that age i was being judged. The worst thing you can do is force anything, berate etc, or make false excuses. adults should know better, 4 yr olds don't. In time it comes, mine are now 8 and 12, and are perfectly capable socially, although the eldest still blushes. In time, they build confidence, give it time. He's barely out of toddlerdom, and it does get better. I also stopped being embarrassed, and switched to empathy with my child and honesty with the judgey adults. Which did in some cases (out of child's earshot) involve some sharp words!

Ha ha
Dd actually answered someone today because they asked if she'd swap her hair for theirs.
She has red hair and the asker was an old grey haired lady.
Dd answered a resounding NO.