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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To those who don't understand toxic, nc etc

49 replies

middleclassdystopia · 16/12/2013 14:46

clearly you've never experienced abusive relatives. I would say cutting contact with close relatives is not done blithely. But rather out of self preservation.

By abusive I mean emotional,physical or sexual abuse. The term toxic was used following the popularity of a book which has helped lots of people come to terms with abusive parents.

Hope that helps and maybe makes anyone reconsider before posting comnents which are dismissive of people's very painful experiences.

OP posts:
GoldenGytha · 16/12/2013 15:46

Totally agree middleclass

I have toxic parents, and have had years of therapy because of this,

The comments on that other thread are nasty and offensive to anyone who has experience of any kind of toxic relationship.

I'm still not ready to face NC, it's bloody hard.

cloggal · 16/12/2013 15:52

I agree middleclass. Though (as I said on the other thread) I'm not sure the label 'toxic' helps understanding - and I otherwise found Susan Forward's work very helpful.

(Just want to suggest the Stately Homes thread in Relationships for anyone who stumbles across this and needs support. I posted there for a while under a different name.)

cloggal · 16/12/2013 15:54

It is hard Golden Flowers

Mystuff · 16/12/2013 15:56

Thank you for this OP, I was fuming reading the other thread. How lacking in empathy to dismiss other peoples experiences like that

cloggal · 16/12/2013 15:58

Especially at this time of year when family issues often flare up anyway, for those in 'nc' or in the midst of an abusive situation it is hell.

NewtRipley · 16/12/2013 15:59

middleclass

I think that people who haven't experienced this can't fathom a world where people behave so inexplicably, unfairly and cruelly.

MN has really opened my eyes to this.

Pipachi · 16/12/2013 15:59

Those who don't understand are ignorant (and therefore lucky).

NewtRipley · 16/12/2013 16:00

OH, didn't realise there was another thread. Hopefully you'll have been able to educate people on there.

Lottapianos · 16/12/2013 16:00

Totally agree middleclass. It's bloody hard work. I'm in therapy too and have been for the last 3 years - it's the hardest work I've ever done, so worth it, but so gruelling.

Some people don't get it and possibly never will. Saying that, they need to keep their hurtful comments to themselves. There's a lot of strong beliefs in society about how 'all parents love their children' and being a parent makes you some sort of saintly creature, it can be very difficulty to challenge that, even with your own life story!

Stately Homes thread is excellent. Hope everyone is doing ok, especially at this particularly tough time of year Thanks

BaconFrazzles · 16/12/2013 16:02

I totally agree with you, OP.

I have very little contact with my parents or sister. All 3 are toxic. My FIL had the audacity to lecture me about not seeing them and said 'they're still your parents no matter how you feel about them'. Needless to say he got a mouthful back!

I hate it when people dismiss how damaging having a toxic family can be; it took me over 35 years to realise it wasn't my fault and that I was actually ok as a person!

PTFO · 16/12/2013 16:04

totally agree with self preservation. Not just myself but our marriage and sanity. All our time was spent arguing/seething over the toxic. It had to stop before it destroyed us- which is what they wanted. They lost out but boy do they love to play the victim.

Unless you have experienced it, I think people think- how hard can it be..? when its gets to the point where its destroying your life its time to go nc

GoldenGytha · 16/12/2013 16:06

That sounds like me Bacon

I'm 46, and it's only in the last year or so that I've actually realised, that no, it wasn't my fault either, and that its ok to have my own thoughts and emotions.

I have very little contact with any of my family.

NewtRipley · 16/12/2013 16:08

Lotta

I agree with that. There's such a lot of fantasy around parenting.

lookatmybutt · 16/12/2013 16:16

I don't know which thread in particular you mean, but I've noticed it's a VERY disturbing general attitude here on MN and have seen it surface on multiple threads.

Even if someone is lucky enough to have not experienced it first hand, have they never had any friends or family who have? Or ever see the news?

TheBigJessie · 16/12/2013 16:21

Some people are simply unwilling to recognise the variety of human experience, and act with compassion. They have nice parents, and they think they themselves are nice parents, so they take the side of people they have never met, but who are parents.

One of my friends gets shit from judgmental idiots for being NC with his parents. He was taken into care by social services and is bloody happy about it! And people still lecture him about how, "well, they're your parents, they love you" blah, blah. WTF?

NewtRipley · 16/12/2013 16:23

TBJ

Yes. I does arise in other circumstances, though. For instance, some people have no experience of depression, or children with SN,
and say ignorant and thoughtless things

Lottapianos · 16/12/2013 16:27

'There's such a lot of fantasy around parenting'

Absolutely Newt and there's an idea that parental love is the absolute gold standard, there is no other love like it. Well my parents make me feel like shit about everything in my life so go figure. Whereas my DP and my friends make me feel good about myself, they create space for me to be myself, they trust me and have faith in me and I don't feel drained of every drop of energy when I spend time with them.

I work with parents and very young children and a relatively large proportion of the parents I know just treat their children as part of the furniture - they're just there. There's nothing precious or special about them in their eyes, they are just a part of their lives and part of their home and they have to be managed. And that's the 'regular' parents who are not outright abusive. You can spot the quality of the relationship a mile off as an outside professional. Some parents are genuinely loving and are prepared to work at being the best parent they can be and it's lovely to see.

Speaking of people who don't get it, a poster on here once told me that she hoped (stern face) that I didn't take my feelings about my parents out on the parents I work with because that would be 'highly unprofessional'. Thanks for that, you utter muppet Hmm

Original poster
middleclassdystopia · 16/12/2013 16:28

A degree of cognitive dissonance occurs or 'safe world view'

People want to believe all mothers or parents are lovely contrary to what they may witness. So they change the facts to fit in with this view. It's a protective thing for them too.

OP posts:
Lottapianos · 16/12/2013 16:30

'I don't know which thread in particular you mean, but I've noticed it's a VERY disturbing general attitude here on MN and have seen it surface on multiple threads.'

I'm on a roll here, sorry Smile There are some people on here who seem to believe that you should never, ever, ever, on pain of death, criticise or 'judge' another person's parenting skills or lack thereof. Guff like 'people parent in different ways' gets trotted out to excuse downright neglect. 'you don't know what's going on in that parent's life'. Boo hoo. That child can't defend or take care of themselves so I'll save my sympathy for them thanks.

flippinada · 16/12/2013 16:31

Yanbu

Haven't seen the other thread but I've come across the attitude you describe before, both on here and IRL.

If I'm feeling charitable, I'd say people from a normal, happy family just don't get it and come from a place of well-meaning ignorance.

Other people..well, they can't see beyond the prism of their own (limited) experience and are probably judgemental tossers to boot.

Elfhame · 16/12/2013 16:32

Don't know what thread you are talking about but IME the only way to deal with very abusive people is to cut them of completely.

Some people are so lacking in empathy or remorse they will never change because they just don't have it in them to care.

flippinada · 16/12/2013 16:34

Great postrs lottapianos.

Some people just don't want to see it, ergo they don't see it and create an alternative universe where all parents are benevolent, caring and lovely.

TheBigJessie · 16/12/2013 16:38

My "favourite" thing on Mumsnet who said she found the reference to toxic mothers very upsetting and indicative of a misogynistic culture, etc.

WTF?! I couldn't decide whether to cry or get angry. I am a feminist. Feminism doesn't mean privileging women and pretending they can do nothing wrong. It means equal opportunities. It means recognition of achievement on merit, regardless of your genitalia. And it must thus also mean recognition of criminal behaviour, regardless of genitalia, surely?

But presumably, to that poster, only adult women count in her feminism. Not abused female children.

MumpireCallsTime · 16/12/2013 16:40

Totally agree. Some people have no comprehension of what people are dealing with. 'sit down and discuss it' or 'have you tried talking about it' two gems.... if that's all you have to offer up please walk on by.

Lottapianos · 16/12/2013 16:41

Thanks flippinada

Also a feminist Jessie, and agree with you completely

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