Horribly behaved child in nursery

[livingstondaisy]

So there is a child, aged 4,in the nursery we use who behaves terribly despite the best efforts of the staff. He is allowed to play 18 games on the play station at home and acts them out resulting in a lot of killing and shooting which is upsetting my child. This child has also been biting my child unprovoked and has called my Dc fat which is not the case. My dc today said that this child has told everyone santa is not real. I am devastated. It feels like the excitement has been tarnished now and there is doubt. We hoped for a couple years more at least to enjoy the innocence. We would like to speak to nursery about the influence this child is having, especially re the fat comment but is there anything they could actually do?

Hmm if you are worried about the child spoiling Santa, just say to your dc that naughty children often lie and also that Santa doesn't visit naughty children

I don't know, that is very heavy stuff.

The odd bite between 1-2 yr olds I can understand, but a 4 yr old?? How often has she been bitten? You write like it's a regular thing.

And perhaps the killing and shooting ideas even more so. I think perhaps staff do need to be listening to every conversation.

If it was my child I think I'd be going in quite heavy with the staff and saying my child is being exposed to highly inappropriate ideas at nursery, and physical attack, and how are they going to prevent that happening again? If they were not able to come up with a convincing plan to protect my child I'd be thinking about moving nurseries.

While I have every sympathy with the staff being put in a difficult position by this child's behaviour, at the end of the day it's their responsibility to protect the other children too, and your ultimate responsibility to keep your child safe and not scared.

For cinema id say pictures as in,I'm gaun tae the pictures

Wow trigglesx I am sure you did not mean to be so patronising.

My question is, what can I ask the nursery to do? I don't need a lecture about childhood development and you are not on the receiving end of a child having nightmares about being shot dead and run over. If you were perhaps you would have a little more empathy for the situation we are in.

I have said the nursery are excellent however a discussion needs to be had.

We do not wrap our child up in cotton wool but at 4, I do not think its appropriate for her to have described to her graphically what will happen when this person "shoots her straight in the face". That is wrong. If you don't agree then maybe you need to look at your own moral compass.

Again, my question was, what can we ask the nursery to do or how can they support us with our child in this situation. Please let's stick to that.

[confused ]

All the nursery can do is exclude him, which they may not do if they would rather have the money that comes from looking after him. They can't do much about his behaviour if the child has lousy parenting at home.

I don't need a lecture about childhood development and you are not on the receiving end of a child having nightmares about being shot dead and run over. If you were perhaps you would have a little more empathy for the situation we are in.

now, who's being patronising?

For goodness sake, I was simply pointing out that a lot of this behaviour is something that happens when kids go to nursery and school. It's not a matter of being harsh, but simply reality. You think I haven't had to deal with any of those things? I have a 4yo, so I'm fairly well versed in some of the things he's heard and seen from other children in reception this year (as well as nursery last year).

Your child is going to hear loads of things from other children over the school year. Some good, some bad. Some namecalling, some things you'd rather they not hear at all. The staff at nursery can only do so much. Talk to your child at home about anything that is upsetting them and simply make the nursery aware of the problems in a calm manner, without demanding any specific information regarding said child.

Not any problems with my moral compass thanks.

You've already said the nursery have told you they have spoken to the parents, so obviously they are dealing with this. You've mentioned behaviour charts and special toys as rewards, so they seem to be working on behaviours. Based on your comments, they're already aware of the namecalling and biting. And I find it hard to believe they wouldn't have seen the shooting games, but you can always mention it. It's possible there are SNs in play here as well.

The Santa thing is irrelevant. Sorry, but it is. At some point, some child will say it in front of your child, mainly because they'll have heard it from someone else. That's life. You just discuss it with them however you are most comfortable, either telling them the truth or reinforcing the Santa myth. Not worth mentioning to the teacher IMO. I think you might look a bit hysterical bringing that up to the teacher.

Please let's stick to that.

Check the top of the page. AIBU. Not everyone is going to say exactly what you want.

Trigglesx, please stick to the point.

What is a reasonable request to the nursery in this situation. Thank you

I've already said, which you'd know if you'd read my post.

Mention the shooting games in case they're not aware (which I doubt if they're as full on as you're saying). And that's about it IMO.

They're obviously already aware and working with the parents on the biting problems (and you've never really said how many bites over what time period). And they're aware of the namecalling. And the Santa thing is nothing really. So no point mentioning those things.

You've said you can't fault the nursery, they are excellent. So does that mean you are faulting a 4yo?

My entire post was "sticking to the point." Just because you don't like what I'm saying doesn't mean it's not to the point.

There is no reasonable request to the nursery about the other child, because you cannot discuss another child's behaviour with them. All you can do, as has been pointed out, is discuss what is happening with your child. As in, my child has been bitten X times over the past few weeks, what behaviour management systems are in place to stop this happening again?

The name calling and Santa stuff - OK, it's not particularly nice but it's life. Children repeat what they hear, unfortunately. It's not the nicest part of parenting, when you realise the kind of things some children hear regularly, but at least your child isn't been called fat by her parents, or told Santa doesn't exist etc etc.

My kid is 4 and bit a girl he is friends with last week. I have NO idea why, he never bites.

He calls people fatty bum bums and smellyheads sometimes. He is always reprimanded and no, we don't call him these names at home.

He knows the names of several Skylanders from other children who attend wraparound care at nursery. We have no computer games in our home. He has never been bought a gun or a sword and the most violent TV he watches is the Smurfs.

Last week he was questioning re FC as the nursery had one of their workers dress up as man in red and he instantly copped it obviously and had lots of questions.

I have already spoken to nursery about the biting and what they will do as I was v v concerned and shocked really as we never see this behaviour. They said he is by no means only one who has had an incident like this. I also thought four was on the old side.

I think you are right to ask nursery to keep dd safe but I also think you are making a lot of assumptions this behaviour is unusual in this age range. Nightmares are also v common and unlikely to be stemming entirely from this.

Sorry meant to say he is into ninjas and superheroes and shooting etc despite us madly pushing Octonauts and lego it's a very common play theme in this age range not about moral compasses etc.

I believe a 4 year old can operate a ps3 game, I wont let mine near them, but in a certain cricle I am considered old fashioned, they dont let their small ones play the, but are happy enough for them to be around while the dads/older siblings do.

Id remove my child.

Wow... Starting to wonder if you are local because my 3 year old is in nursery, has watched his Daddy shoot people in games, and doesn't believe in father Christmas (we aren't christians so don't celebrate christmas. So we don't do the Santa thing)

Nursery organised a trip to the safari park with santa at the end, and I let him go because he loves the animals there and I warned the teacher to be ready to shut him up because we don't do Santa. Then they took them all to see a different Santa at the sure start centre in the school grounds...I didn't get told about it until too late to warn him to keep quiet about it being "a man dressinged up" and unfortunately they didn't need my permission as they didn't leave the grounds.

To the best of my knowledge he hasn't bitten anyone :/ just saying, there may well be reasons for his not believing in Santa... And he might not have played those games (my boy woke quietly so his dad didn't know he wasn't asleep).

Biting... He's in nursery, they are all learning how to behave towards others. Yes, it's still wrong but he might not know that properly yet.

Id want time out the moment the child did something offensive. A 4 year old should be over biting, it's not like he's 2! A 4 year old should have a good idea about what is appropriate behaviour.

That wont work because many parents - myself included, do not agree with time out or punishments or shaming children into behaving, this includes, thinking spots, naughty chairs, time outs etc.

Developmentally he might not be 4. Biting usually happens when communication fails OR is even affectionate. My kid LOVES the little girl he bit, is always chatting about her.

Mine is fine developmentally and I have NO idea why he bit last week. Haven't ever seen it elsewhere. Nursery has been a bit chaotic since his keyworker went on maternity which is all I can think of.

It's horrible when your child bites as well. I've another dc who was badly badly bitten a number of times and my current 'biter' has been bitten too. It's horrible both ways but seems common in nurseries.

And the nursery will not (and can not) discuss behaviour management plans or punishments of other children with you as it's confidential information. They can only discuss with you specifically what will be done in relation to your child.

There's a huge difference between a 4yo that has just turned 4 and an older 4yo that is almost 5. Some children take longer to develop or understand certain social skills than others. This is one of the reasons they attend nursery - to learn these things.

Little boys (and some girls) were playing shooting and killing when I was 4 in 1972! It's nothing todowith video games.I remember one popular game called 'best man falls' where you chose how you wanted to be 'killed' and then acted the most graphic death you could! It is nothing new!!
WRT to calling people fat, well at that age children don't know about social graces and are just stating someone is fat as fact!!Is your child a bit plumper than the boy?
santa ? meh. You really can't slate a child for telling the truth?
fBiting is horrid but it happens even at 4! I wouldn't be too judgmental,you might get a biter next time!!

I have noticed that lots of nurseries have policies on how they deal with a biting incident. OP - you should ask to see the one at your nursery and then you can reasonably ask if it is being implemented. There are more and more incidents of children biting at 4. It is not that rare as some 4 year olds will be inarticulate. It seems to need that the boy is probably watching older siblings or his Dad on the games which are unsuitable. Unfortunately this is how parents behave and again it is more common than you would think. I think it is reasonable to discuss with staff about the language and violent acts being described to your child because, in my view, it is unacceptable. This is not normal boisterous childhood play because it goes farther than that. A lot of people do not see much wrong with video games that are inappropriate but you do not have to put up with your DD hearing about such stuff. Some of us do think it is unacceptable and do not want it to be normal. If this is a good nursery, they will be trying to deal with the problems anyway. It is probably not this child's fault but I would hope your DD will not be in Reception class with him!!!

Sorry ... It seems to me...

My boy was one of those problem children who had communication issues and bit others if they got in his space. He badly bit another boy at the age of six because this boy yelled in ds face. The amount of tutting and judging I endured from others was terrible and I felt awful too. I felt a failure. He didn't play with toys or respond to reward charts and the only thing he loved was an ancient ps2 and stuart little game. And he was brilliant at it and completed it at the age of 4

He has now been diagnosed with autism.

It's awful when it's your child on the receiving end..dd1 went through similar with a little girl in her class who was known to social services anyway but was so violent she tried to strangle my dd who was 3 at the time and others..she was a big strong child. She was placed in a unit in another school after that.

Please don't demonise the child or the parents. You don't know if there are SN or other problems going on. Not easy when it's your own child that's being affected by another childs behaviour. Hope it gets sorted

Id want time out the moment the child did something offensive. A 4 year old should be over biting, it's not like he's 2! A 4 year old should have a good idea about what is appropriate behaviour.

Actually you CAN raise concerns about another child with the nursery, especially if they relate to the safety and wellbeing of your own child. The nursery however cannot discuss the behaviour management strategies they are implementing with that child, or in fact discuss the child at all with you. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't raise your concerns with them.
I would however expect them to have plans in place to deal with the behaviour you are (legitimately!) concerned about. They should already have general beaviour management policies, and can discuss their overall setting policy with you.
If they know your dd is getting distressed by some of the more violent talk/role-playing they can step in with distraction techniques. You can also empower your dd to take control of the situation by saying she doesn't want to play those games etc, and walk away or find an adult. Role play can help with this.
With reference to the comments about being fat I would definitely highlight this to the nursery - I would hope it would lead to a discussion with the children about name calling.
About FC - I have a DS who is at nursery and I too would be upset if someone told him - but I think this is something you have to deal with at home with your DD rather than asking the nursery to intervene.
HTH

although my DS is into history (a fallout from DS2 and DP) and I watched him brandishing a play sword earlier on today shouting 'In the name of King Richard!'

My DS1 was very very PFB, but due to the age difference DS2 is far more exposed to things than his brother was. definitely not adult content though