to wonder why men are almost always the non-resident parent

[womblesofwestminster]

Yes, I know I could win an award for most clueless person, but please humour me.

Why is it that when parents separate, it's almost always the mother that the children live with and who has to do the bulk of the mundane parts of the childcare? While daddy gets to pay a cash sum each week, pursue his own interests most of the time and then be Disney the rest of the time.

Doesn't sound like a good deal to me.

hiddenhome

Your stereotyping of men is awful and pretty stupid really.

It's almost as if you don't realise your son will turn into a man one day.

Unfortunately I'm sure your toxic attitude will rub off on him.

Why do some good Dads and their supporters get so offended when people talk about the bad ones?

I know plenty of good Dads, But if I read posts about bad ones, I understand that they are specific to bad Dads, not Dads in general.

Why is that so hard?

Surely if you are a good Dad, you are disgusted at the bad ones too?

I know there will be some generalisations, but they are easily distinguishable from the specific sort of post and are typically challenged from all sides.

It is a fact that the majority of NRPs don't pay child support, why is someone stating that so irritant to those NRPs that do pay?

So you pay, well done for doing what you are meant to do. When someone mentions the non payers, they aren't talking about you are they?

Repeat...they are not talking about you

Mumallthetime

*DD's dad does his bit - he turns up sometimes (when he feels like it) stays for an hour or two (in that time he eats our food and uses our computer) then disappears again (sometimes for months on end). That is his choice and there is little I can do about it.

There are plenty of men out there saying they wish they had more time with their children, but many of them are lying to make themselves look better to others

.......and there are plenty of Resident Mums like yourself who play the victim and claim they can do nothing. Really? He forces his way in? Steals your food and forces you to allow him to use your computer and gunpoint?

Rubbish. If you want to claim that the majority of men are irresponsible, then expect to be accused of enabling it.*

Sorry, but where is this enabling crap coming from? What would you suggest I do? Stop the ex from coming to our house and seeing his daughter? That would make me a horrible mother would it not? I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. I allow him to come to our house because dd wants to see her dad and while he is here I treat him as I would any other guest. I'm not a victim, I have dd safe with me. He doesn't want to play a bigger part in dd's life, fine, his choice, he's the one losing out. I'm not going to prevent dd from seeing her dad just because I'm pissed off that he let us down and is useless. I don't believe any blame lies with me at all, I've done the best I can with the situation I have.

My exh is a great dad, he pays child care (more than csa would ask) and has a great relationship with the kids. However there is no question that he would want to be the resident parent or even have them 50/50. That would interfere with his lifestyle/ social life/ career options too much.
I actually think he does far more for them now than he would have if we'd stayed together and his relationship with them is better for that.

my ex would never have been a resident parent without palming the kids off on his sister or his wife or his mother, any convenient female really regardless of her relationship with the children.

Why do some good Dads and their supporters get so offended when people talk about the bad ones?

Why doesn't everyone support good dads? Why is there a category of posters who are referred to as 'good dad supporters' - as if the majority of MN don't?

As for not challenging generalisations - where do you draw the line? When does generalisation become discrimination? And, possibly more significantly, if generalisations about men should go unchallenged to maintain the flow of the thread - what about all the challenges to generalisations about women?
If I were to say that single mums are manhaters who are motivated to exclude their exs from their DCs lives because they haven't come to terms with rejection would it be clear that I meant "in my experience", hence there's no need to qualify it?

My ex left the home announcing that I was now responsible for the children. He has no wish to see them this xmas, or really most other times as he had his own life to live. He is a good one for announcing on facebook/to friends etc what a doting dad he is. Either way, the statistics I was told my my lawyer was that 1:2 or 1:3 (I don't remember, irrelevant difference really) of dads opt out 100% and after 2 years no longer have contact with their children post-divorce. I think that it is a combination of society allowing many fathers to walk away with no recourse, and programming in that they are emotionally able to do this. I am sure there are many good dads out there, I wish I had picked one.

My exH is a fantastic Dad too, he has loads of contact with DS and they have a great relationship. He and I are also more than capable of keeping any differences away from DS. in fact it is DS's birthday this week and exH is coming over and we are both taking DS to the cinema and out for a pizza afterwards. ExH has already said that he will pay for all of this.

We have been separated for five years but there has never been a time when he has not wanted to be a part of DS's life. Perhaps this is fortunate though, he isn't violent and there are no other issues which other single mothers sometimes have to deal with in contact with an ex-partner.

We have had to work at this arrangement but we are happy with how things are currently. I cannot see either of us moving on though despite one or two other relationships he has had. So maybe our arrangement holds us back, I don't know but at the moment it works for our DS and he is our priority.

prize goes to Mumallthetime for completely purposefully? misunderstanding my post.

Because mumallthetime its seriously fucked up when someone is talking about there own crappy experance to then jump in with ohhh but my ex is fantastic or not all dads are crap,as a direct response to there post.

Its insensitive and really quite unpleasant.

I hand my dd over to my abusive ex who makes it clear to her he doesn't want her and just keeps up contact to annoy me (his words not mine).

Yes I continue to hand her over but that is because there's a court order forcing me. I've been told by more than one solicitor that if I break the order XH will be given residency and I'll lose dd also they say I've no right of appeal.

Those of us posting about bad experiences are posting our personal experiences on this thread which goes towards answering the OP.

Inspite of the posts saying fathers are discouraged to seek shared contact arrangements, my experience and the experiences of women I met at contact centres over the years was different.

I've seen lots of children subject to contact orders where the father has been abusive.

Some fathers use contact as a way of continuing abusing the mothers, they don't want equal access they want control and to call the shots.

I'm sure there are fathers who want to be involved with their children and love them dearly, I know one.

The general trend however is that mostly mothers are the ones who take time out of careers when they have children to care for their children. And a lot of the time when relationships breakdown it's the fathers that walk away, leaving behind the children and a trail of debt which the spouse left behind has to deal with.

It's also crap when you're spending every last penny and all of your energy fighting for access with your child - your child, the other parent has no legal right to withhold contact or spread nasty terrifying lies to your child but does anyway - to be told that perhaps you're lying and only making out you want contact to impress your new partner. Mumallthetime has been fair, hasn't generalised...

Amber - most NRPs don't pay? Where did you get that information?

And a lot of the time when relationships breakdown it's the fathers that walk away, leaving behind the children and a trail of debt which the spouse left behind has to deal with.

This is exactly the kind of generalisation that I was referring to. This is not personal experience ; it's a sweeping generalisation, a conclusion drawn about 'fathers'.
How do you know that a lot of the time this is what fathers do? There are no statistics to evidence your sweeping statement!

It would be equally valid for me to say "a lot of mothers deliberately withhold contact between their DCs and their fathers". How do we know whether its true or not?

Amber - most NRPs don't pay? Where did you get that information?

There's a link a few pages back but no context - it doesn't say whether the % includes NRP who are assessed as Nil payment (in other words, are willing to pay but don't have an income).
If I were to make my own sweeping generalisation I would say that most RP expect NRP to pay CM even when they have no means of income....but that may just be my impression having spent too long on the LP board of MN

A lot of the time is not every time.

It's not a generalisation, its a personal view based on the many women I know.

Good for you for having a wonderful ex.

Many do not.

Try taking a look at statistics on women's aid and DVIP programmes.

Exactly my thoughts mumallthetime. DFs ex wife sat in the contact centre too and I have no doubt she would slag off or outright lie about why she was there. She could hardly sit there and no "Oh no my ex pays double the CSA amount, oh yes he's dying to have extra contact but I don't think he deserves it"..!

That doesn't mean I think all mothers in contact centres are liars or all RPs withhold contact or anything like that. My personal experience is that fathers stay involved, pay the right amount and would love more contact. I don't think generalisations help anyone in this situation; it's painful on all sides - yes, even for the contact blocking RP and for the NRP who doesn't know where to start their fight for more contact.

As an RP I actually do expect a financial contribution from ex towards the children. Regardless of whether he thinks he earns money or not, when you have children you have a financial responsibility to them.

My expectations do not meet the reality of course as ex is very good at leaving jobs just as the CSa has caught up with him, however he is not on the breadline unless brand new BMW's are currently being handed out at the DSS.

'd'h would argue that I am the non resident parent.

Its all about control. He wants it, and he has it. No matter what legal protection there might be, the reality is that I don't have the money to fight for my kids, and he does. I could write lots and lots on this but it will serve no purpose other than to out me. 'Walk in a mile in my shoes before you judge me' I don't think most people could manage ten yards.

Then try saying "In my experience". Those two statements are entirely different! Not sure what's women's aid and DVIP have to do with clear statistics unless now all NRPs are abusive?!

No but hopefully all abusers are NRP's.

If a father wants shared residency he can fight for it in court, my experience and at least one other poster on here has experience of having to facilitate contact regardless of the situation due to court orders.
The courts do try and ensure the father is given contact with their child and I know two (just remembered the second one met him at a contact centre) fathers who have residency, there is nothing holding back a father from going for residency of their child.

Amber - most NRPs don't pay? Where did you get that information?

It is easily found if you google.

From the Gingerbread site;

Only two-fifths (38 per cent) of single parents receive maintenance from their child’s other parent

Which indicates that the majority don't pay.

For all those with an agreement for child maintenance (both through the CSA and private arrangement) the median weekly amount received is £46 per family

Which indicates that this is data is collated from those getting CS from both CSA and private arrangements.

The average amount of child maintenance liable to be paid through the CSA is currently £33.50 per week (£22.50 if all cases with a weekly assessment of zero are included in the average

Which indicates that this data has been collated from those on 'zero assessments' too.

Among parents with care in receipt of income-related benefits, the average amount is £23 (excluding cases with a weekly assessment of zero

Which indicates there are single parents in that position who get no financial contribution from the NRP.

Of single parents receiving child maintenance through the CSA, 40 per cent receive less than £10 per week, 38 per cent receive between £10 and £50 per week and 22 per cent receive more than £50 per week

Which indicates that the majority get less than £10 per week, slightly less get somewhere between £10-50 per week. with a minority receiving £50+ per week.

There are approx 2 million single parents in the UK.

Which means that approx 760,000 single parents get no financial support from the NRP.

The sources for their data include stats from the ONS and DWP.

No but hopefully all abusers are NRP's.

I can assure you that is definitely not the case. My DHs DCs live with their Mum who is known to social services for physical and emotional abuse.

I can't be certain that she is the only one, but I would hazard a guess that there are others.

So what is their father doing about that then?

amber What's interesting to me about those statistics (which are often used as evidence of the irresponsibility of NRP) is that the number/percentage of NRP who pay nothing includes those NRP who are not economically active and are therefore assessed as zero.

Assuming for a moment that it becomes socially unacceptable for Dads not to pay for their DCs, there will need to be a change in social policy in order for NR Dads to be positively discriminated against when it comes to employment.

Not all Dads, whether or not they are separated from the DCs Mum, are currently in work. So, if the expectation is that all NR Dads will have work (and pay CM) then presumably that will negatively affect the employment chances of Dads who are still living with the DCs mum?